3 ms·

For the sake of clarity: I will not stand on the side of homeopathy, ever. It's placebo effect marketing rather than evidence-based science and hence not worth

For the sake of clarity: I will not stand on the side of homeopathy, ever. It's placebo effect marketing rather than evidence-based science and hence not worth my money.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
I didn't think you did, but valid things can share traits with bullshit and still be valid things.
- ocimbote 5y ago
  This is correct and too often ignored. Bullshit owns nothing:)
dr_dshiv 5y ago
What about when placebo-based medicine offers better patient outcomes, for certain disorders? E.g., for sleep medicine without side effects? We used homeopathy for my daughters car sickness and it worked great.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  Did you know stretching before a car trip prevents all but the worst car sickness? Both my chiropractor and my acupuncturist recommended it and I haven't suffered from car sickness since. There, I saved you the cost of the water pills. You don't need costly, potentially dangerous additive laced medicine if you're just looking for the placebo effect.
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    Yeah, but she feels sick in the car. Then we give her a pill. There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy, that’s the dilution effect. Another thread trending on the value of placebo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      >There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy Some of the pills are made using toxic fillers. It's not enough I'd panic over, you can get the placebo effect without ingesting anything shady/expensive.
      - dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Do you have a source for homeopathy being made from toxic filers? I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
        boomboomsubban 5y ago
        I can't find specifics about homeopathic fillers, but any pill not regulated by the FDA is likely to use cheap fillers that are often toxic. Vitamins are where you commonly hear about this, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary_supplements_by_the_U.S._Food_and_Drug_Administration#Dietary_supplements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary... I did find this, https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teething-gels-may-have-killed-10-babies-sickened-400/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teet... which shows there is some risk, though again you're most likely fine. >I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect. For you, sure. For your daughter, I bet your confident recommendation is the most important aspect.
- ocimbote 5y ago
  Placebo is very powerful and is actually validated by scientific research. So when the conditions are here, as they seemingly were for your daughters, it's great. Yet, homeopathy, when considered as a potent product, didn't help, because it is not potent. The conditions enabling the placebo effect did. And no one would complain about that :) The problem arises when homeopathy is sold and marketed as potent _per se_.

For the sake of clarity: I will not stand on the side of homeopathy, ever. It's placebo effect marketing rather than evidence-based science and hence not worth my money.

boomboomsubban 5y ago

I didn't think you did, but valid things can share traits with bullshit and still be valid things.

ocimbote 5y ago
This is correct and too often ignored. Bullshit owns nothing:)

dr_dshiv 5y ago

What about when placebo-based medicine offers better patient outcomes, for certain disorders? E.g., for sleep medicine without side effects? We used homeopathy for my daughters car sickness and it worked great.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
Did you know stretching before a car trip prevents all but the worst car sickness? Both my chiropractor and my acupuncturist recommended it and I haven't suffered from car sickness since. There, I saved you the cost of the water pills. You don't need costly, potentially dangerous additive laced medicine if you're just looking for the placebo effect.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Yeah, but she feels sick in the car. Then we give her a pill. There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy, that’s the dilution effect. Another thread trending on the value of placebo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    >There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy Some of the pills are made using toxic fillers. It's not enough I'd panic over, you can get the placebo effect without ingesting anything shady/expensive.
    - dr_dshiv 5y ago
      Do you have a source for homeopathy being made from toxic filers? I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        I can't find specifics about homeopathic fillers, but any pill not regulated by the FDA is likely to use cheap fillers that are often toxic. Vitamins are where you commonly hear about this, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary_supplements_by_the_U.S._Food_and_Drug_Administration#Dietary_supplements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary... I did find this, https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teething-gels-may-have-killed-10-babies-sickened-400/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teet... which shows there is some risk, though again you're most likely fine. >I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect. For you, sure. For your daughter, I bet your confident recommendation is the most important aspect.
ocimbote 5y ago
Placebo is very powerful and is actually validated by scientific research. So when the conditions are here, as they seemingly were for your daughters, it's great. Yet, homeopathy, when considered as a potent product, didn't help, because it is not potent. The conditions enabling the placebo effect did. And no one would complain about that :) The problem arises when homeopathy is sold and marketed as potent _per se_.