14 ms·

Analogue OS – Explore video game history

88 points by Unai 5y ago

WalterGR 5y ago
Wow that’s hard to read. Here’s an article about the subject: https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/16/22722412/analogue-pocket-analogueos-operating-system-game-boy-retro https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/16/22722412/analogue-pocket...
- HolidayguyNOR 5y ago
  It's like the webpage version of the S8 GoT battle. No photons were harmed in the making of this product, cause none were involved.
LeoPanthera 5y ago
Analogue is the company that trademarked the term "FPGA": https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:1t71ae.2.1 https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:1t... And then claim that it is some kind of magical panacea for all emulation problems: https://twitter.com/analogue/status/1449389710065946628 https://twitter.com/analogue/status/1449389710065946628 Which of course is wildly misleading. It's just marketing.
- Quot 5y ago
  The patent you linked says "NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "FPGA" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN". From what I understand, that is just a trademark for the logo showing "FPGA" within their square design. The tweet you linked is promoting their newest product, so of course it's marketing it as something fantastic. FPGA emulation isn't a miracle, but it does provide some benefits over software emulation. I find it hard to believe that people would be misled into thinking this is some scholarly source of information.
noasaservice 5y ago
No it's not. It's just another hardware commercial grab that relies on using the real current version of Library of Alexandria - Thepiratebay.org There's no vendor that could afford license fees to copy every game, from say, the NES, SNES, Atari, Commodore, etc. The rights are either untracable, unpurchasable, or exorbitantly priced. It's also why Ready Player One book was so awesome, and why the movie was a pale joke... Even with Spielberg as the big name directing, there was absolutely no way to afford every right mentioned in the book. - Do you think that even the 1st quest, a D&D campaign, would be licensed reasonably by WoTC/Hasbro? And, well, it wasn't.
- piperswe 5y ago
  According to the website: "Analogue Pocket does not play copyrighted rom files, it plays legacy game cartridges via the cartridge slot. To play a game in Library you will need to insert the game cartridge to play it."
  - noasaservice 5y ago
    I do not understand why you restated what I said, as if I was somehow wrong.
    - piperswe 5y ago
      It appears that you're saying the Analogue is piggybacking on piracy, but from what I can tell they don't want you pirating games on their consoles.
- spicybright 5y ago
  A Library of Alexandria with no books due to copyright issues inside it is hardly a library lol Why couldn't this startup focus on this aspect instead of making retropi interfaces?
ParadisoShlee 5y ago
MiSTER hits a similar beat, just with less marketing.
- idnefju 5y ago
  for playing on the couch sure, but handheld? It’s a no go.
- snvzz 5y ago
  Also way more open. MiSTer is all about openness, preservation and access to technology. Analogue's about making money. Nothing more, nothing less.
- jogu 5y ago
  I own a DE10-NANO, the development kit powering the MiSTER project, as well as both the Super Nt and Mega Sg. I agree that there's a lot in common, but I think the two projects target vastly different audiences. The MiSTER project has a broader scope, and aims to preserve legacy hardware, including games, but also older computer hardware. It's much more geared towards hobbyists or tinkerers as you'll have to buy various hardware extensions to have the right setup for the console you're actually interested in playing. That being said, the MiSTER project never aims to truly be a "replacement" for any of the consoles it supports. Things like reading the console's native media or native controllers aren't really goals of the project. Analogue's consoles on the other hand are meant to be drop in replacements for the original hardware, just re-imagined for today. They have the original controller ports, cartridge slots, support for original expansion hardware, etc. They're highly polished, and targeted at solving a specific use-case. The biggest problem the Analogue consoles solve is hooking up to modern TVs. I see them as an alternative to purchasing a CRT, upscalers, or modding original hardware, all of which can quickly ring up a bill equal to or more expensive than one of Analogue's consoles.
louhike 5y ago
Analogue’s marketing is infuriating the retro gaming community more and more. Their products are nice but they always take a lot of time to deliver their products, even before the covid. Their marketing is always misleading, talking about « no emulation » although it is some kind emulation of the systems. It is better than software emulation as it allows better accuracy and far less input lag, but it is emulation through FPGA. I’m quite interested in the Pocket, but if you want to jump in FPGA emulation of old computers, consoles and arcades, I’d recommend the MiSTer project which is open source, delivers constantly, do not use shitty marketing terms, has a great community and allows to play a lot of old systems already.
- colordrops 5y ago
  I don't know why but I've never heard of Analogue and their website made me irrationally angry and irritated. I don't know if it was the verbiage or the unclear communication about exactly it is, but it was immediate.
  - cyber_kinetist 5y ago
    It's the pretentious SV-esque marketing speak that's unbearable, and funnier because they are targeting a niche audience (interested in playing/preserving retro games) who would have absolutely none of that crap. Seriously, how absolutely out of touch you have to be from the retro gaming audience to create this kind of thing....
    - codetrotter 5y ago
      So I came into the comments having never heard of these people, and from the comments I was expecting something bad. But actually I had the opposite experience when I then opened the OP link. They are making something that is similar to a GameBoy Color, but built on an FPGA, and which lets you play games from a few different consoles. I grew up with GBC, N64, PS1 and PS2. My first console was the GBC. I played N64 and PS1 at friends houses, and got a PS2 of my own when that came out. Now and then I use emulation and revisit some old favorites. And I’ve also bought a couple of old consoles second hand to play on those in the past. A while ago, at the beginning of the pandemic, I bought a Nintendo New 3DS XL second hand with the intention of also trying emulation on it. Ended up only playing actual DS and 3DS games, and not doing emulation. Then sold it. Not sure I'd want this thing, and can’t afford it at the moment anyways. But the website did a good job of catching my interest. And if I was in the market for a handheld gaming system, this page would be enough for me to begin looking into it further. And my point is, there may be more people out there than you realize who are interested in a little bit of retro gaming now and then who will respond similarly positively to that page as what I did.
em3rgent0rdr 5y ago
Why call it "AnalogueOS" if it is digital?
- pjerem 5y ago
  Because Analogue is the name of the company. And they are named like this because they claim to do real execution (and not emulation) of games through FPGA chips and not through emulators.
  - em3rgent0rdr 5y ago
    "FPGA" (field programmable gate array) chips are still digital.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
iamevn 5y ago
is there any indication of whether you can capture video off an analogue pocket? from what I can tell you need to buy the dock (which is out of stock) and capture hdmi?
- louhike 5y ago
  As fas as we know, yes, you would need the dock.
Causality1 5y ago
"The Library of Alexandria of video games" is not the title of the page nor does it appear on the page at all. Per the HN submission guidelines: please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.
Klaster_1 5y ago
Talking about “Library of Alexandria of video games”, I wonder how much video games were lost forever after Underground Gamer was shut down. Without the easy access, these games won't get as much publicity as before and crazy projects like documenting every single PC-88 game in English (kudos to Oleg) become much harder.
- Lutzb 5y ago
  It is still mystery to me that no followed in the foot steps of underground gamer to this day.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  The damage caused by these copyright monopolists cannot be calculated. The fall of what.cd was a pretty big hit too...
olah_1 5y ago
I thought that Analogue required the cartridge to play these old games? How does that work with this concept of playlists and stuff?
- notafraudster 5y ago
  They do (unless you use the jailbreak firmware for their devices, which is made by the same guy that makes the official firmware under some cockamamie plausible deniability scheme) -- but that's what makes it weird that they would emphasize this incredibly stupid playlist/library function. Since on the official firmware you'll have to swap carts anyway, what difference does it make that you have a "playlist"?
twelvechairs 5y ago
The text leaves a lot to be desired. It seems to be an OS designed to interact with FPGA chips. Whats not explained is why this is better than using other OSs for the same goal, and why this is definitively better than using software emulation (which seems fine to me as an outisder for anything ive wanted in this space). This is the information i need to decide if it can be 'definitive' and 'conclusive' compared to other options which is their stated design goal. 'Library of alexandria' is another red herring of copy text. A library is about providing access to information, which AFAIK the data (games here) are available in lots of places already
- rat87 5y ago
  > are available in lots of places already The same is true about the 'Library of Alexandria'
nicolas_t 5y ago
I would not recommend Analogue at all, they deliver half baked products that fail to deliver what they promised and give non-answer when contacting support. When they announced the NT mini noir restock, they announced it would have support for sega genesis through the jailbreak so I bought it on that basis. But when the jailbreak (which is not released directly by an "independent" party that has access to the internals and all the information needed to release them), the sega genesis support had a very weird mapping making it impossible to play most games correctly (the c button is mapped to the select button on the genesis controller from 8bitdo). Me and a few people complained to support who despite promises of looking into it did nothing at all. If it was opensource, I could just fix it but right now I have a very expensive console that only does half of what it promised.
- wk_end 5y ago
  Indeed. The Super NT (which I own) was billed as a perfect, “reference-grade”, 100% accurate Super Nintendo clone, but it had for years - and in some cases continues to have, after many firmware updates with months of silence from the company in between - various compatibility bugs, big and small, even with hugely popular games like Chrono Trigger. Their products are good, but not exceptional, and every other aspect of the company (ordering, shipping, support, communication) is infuriating. I suspect that they make their products in short supply more out an aim of cultivating an air of exclusivity than because of actual supply chain limitations. Describing their mediocre emulator front end as a “library of Alexandria” for scholarly video game preservation is hyperbolic to the point of being offense to the people who actually have committed themselves to game preservation. It’s ridiculous.
tetrisgm 5y ago
It’s hilarious reading the negative comments here because it’s completely out of sync with the way Analogue’s audience perceives them. They’re seen as a high quality, craftsmanship driven shop. Their current consoles offer extremely high fidelity emulation. There’s an attention to detail that’s to the point where original hardware quirks, limitations of accessories are maintained. You can go pretty deep with the way the color palette, the pixel shapes, and the scanlines are rendered. Their current OS (for thw NT and such) feels like a file manager that could run on an NES. It’s ok. To see them invest into making it more capable, and more versatile is a great thing. You can’t get this level of service with a SNES Mini or a NES Mini. This is exciting!
- jogu 5y ago
  Yes, it's quite interesting seeing all the negative feedback. To be honest, I don't quite understand it. I've purchased both the Super Nt and Mega Sg and have been extremely pleased with them. They're extremely high quality and strike a great balance between providing an authentic experience for the console while being reasonable to use with a modern TV. And to be blunt, aren't even an unreasonable price when compared to the alternatives for making the original hardware usable with similar fidelity and features.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    > To be honest, I don't quite understand it. It's gamers. That is all there is to it. The entire gaming community is rotten to the core. Don't ever put yourself in a position where you have gamers as customers.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Hardware quirk preservation have always been a MAJOR focus of emulators since they existed. Almost every console emulator has been iterated on by millions of people to produce emulation as accurately as possible. The FPGA part is a really weird focus to me. From what I understand their emulation systems don't run as many games glitch free, as they don't have the same man power to recreate all of that in FPGA. You can't copy out raw game consoles schematics into into it, you need to have an FPGA programmer re-make it and make sure every rom runs against it. If anything, this shoots their "scholarly" claim in the foot from the start. Rendering mode shaders usually require a bit of setup, but it's also been around for years. I think around 2005 is the first I heard of a good CRT shader that imitated pixel shapes, color signal blur, monitor curvature, etc. I guess my main argument is, I could make a RetroPi in a few hours with every emulator, and every rom, and meet all of the marketing criteria with better settings. Including better compatibility. Assuming they're trying to advertise to my market, why would I pay 50x the cost for an inferior product? Why wouldn't they start from where emulation enthusiasts currently are instead of way behind?
stared 5y ago
It is not "Library of Alexandria of video games" - I felt deceived after visiting the page. It is a Steamdeck for old games. The link should be changed especially as the HN rules suggest to edit out clickbaits, not to add them. Compare and contrast with actual collections: - https://archive.org/details/classicpcgames https://archive.org/details/classicpcgames - https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/ https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/
Kipters 5y ago
Now, if you could actually get the Pocket...

88 points by Unai 5y ago

Wow that’s hard to read. Here’s an article about the subject: https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/16/22722412/analogue-pocket-analogueos-operating-system-game-boy-retro https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/16/22722412/analogue-pocket...

HolidayguyNOR 5y ago
It's like the webpage version of the S8 GoT battle. No photons were harmed in the making of this product, cause none were involved.

LeoPanthera 5y ago

Analogue is the company that trademarked the term "FPGA": https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:1t71ae.2.1 https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:1t... And then claim that it is some kind of magical panacea for all emulation problems: https://twitter.com/analogue/status/1449389710065946628 https://twitter.com/analogue/status/1449389710065946628 Which of course is wildly misleading. It's just marketing.

Quot 5y ago
The patent you linked says "NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "FPGA" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN". From what I understand, that is just a trademark for the logo showing "FPGA" within their square design. The tweet you linked is promoting their newest product, so of course it's marketing it as something fantastic. FPGA emulation isn't a miracle, but it does provide some benefits over software emulation. I find it hard to believe that people would be misled into thinking this is some scholarly source of information.

noasaservice 5y ago

No it's not. It's just another hardware commercial grab that relies on using the real current version of Library of Alexandria - Thepiratebay.org There's no vendor that could afford license fees to copy every game, from say, the NES, SNES, Atari, Commodore, etc. The rights are either untracable, unpurchasable, or exorbitantly priced. It's also why Ready Player One book was so awesome, and why the movie was a pale joke... Even with Spielberg as the big name directing, there was absolutely no way to afford every right mentioned in the book. - Do you think that even the 1st quest, a D&D campaign, would be licensed reasonably by WoTC/Hasbro? And, well, it wasn't.

piperswe 5y ago
According to the website: "Analogue Pocket does not play copyrighted rom files, it plays legacy game cartridges via the cartridge slot. To play a game in Library you will need to insert the game cartridge to play it."
- noasaservice 5y ago
  I do not understand why you restated what I said, as if I was somehow wrong.
  - piperswe 5y ago
    It appears that you're saying the Analogue is piggybacking on piracy, but from what I can tell they don't want you pirating games on their consoles.
spicybright 5y ago
A Library of Alexandria with no books due to copyright issues inside it is hardly a library lol Why couldn't this startup focus on this aspect instead of making retropi interfaces?

ParadisoShlee 5y ago

MiSTER hits a similar beat, just with less marketing.

idnefju 5y ago
for playing on the couch sure, but handheld? It’s a no go.
snvzz 5y ago
Also way more open. MiSTer is all about openness, preservation and access to technology. Analogue's about making money. Nothing more, nothing less.
jogu 5y ago
I own a DE10-NANO, the development kit powering the MiSTER project, as well as both the Super Nt and Mega Sg. I agree that there's a lot in common, but I think the two projects target vastly different audiences. The MiSTER project has a broader scope, and aims to preserve legacy hardware, including games, but also older computer hardware. It's much more geared towards hobbyists or tinkerers as you'll have to buy various hardware extensions to have the right setup for the console you're actually interested in playing. That being said, the MiSTER project never aims to truly be a "replacement" for any of the consoles it supports. Things like reading the console's native media or native controllers aren't really goals of the project. Analogue's consoles on the other hand are meant to be drop in replacements for the original hardware, just re-imagined for today. They have the original controller ports, cartridge slots, support for original expansion hardware, etc. They're highly polished, and targeted at solving a specific use-case. The biggest problem the Analogue consoles solve is hooking up to modern TVs. I see them as an alternative to purchasing a CRT, upscalers, or modding original hardware, all of which can quickly ring up a bill equal to or more expensive than one of Analogue's consoles.

louhike 5y ago

Analogue’s marketing is infuriating the retro gaming community more and more. Their products are nice but they always take a lot of time to deliver their products, even before the covid. Their marketing is always misleading, talking about « no emulation » although it is some kind emulation of the systems. It is better than software emulation as it allows better accuracy and far less input lag, but it is emulation through FPGA. I’m quite interested in the Pocket, but if you want to jump in FPGA emulation of old computers, consoles and arcades, I’d recommend the MiSTer project which is open source, delivers constantly, do not use shitty marketing terms, has a great community and allows to play a lot of old systems already.

colordrops 5y ago
I don't know why but I've never heard of Analogue and their website made me irrationally angry and irritated. I don't know if it was the verbiage or the unclear communication about exactly it is, but it was immediate.
- cyber_kinetist 5y ago
  It's the pretentious SV-esque marketing speak that's unbearable, and funnier because they are targeting a niche audience (interested in playing/preserving retro games) who would have absolutely none of that crap. Seriously, how absolutely out of touch you have to be from the retro gaming audience to create this kind of thing....
  - codetrotter 5y ago
    So I came into the comments having never heard of these people, and from the comments I was expecting something bad. But actually I had the opposite experience when I then opened the OP link. They are making something that is similar to a GameBoy Color, but built on an FPGA, and which lets you play games from a few different consoles. I grew up with GBC, N64, PS1 and PS2. My first console was the GBC. I played N64 and PS1 at friends houses, and got a PS2 of my own when that came out. Now and then I use emulation and revisit some old favorites. And I’ve also bought a couple of old consoles second hand to play on those in the past. A while ago, at the beginning of the pandemic, I bought a Nintendo New 3DS XL second hand with the intention of also trying emulation on it. Ended up only playing actual DS and 3DS games, and not doing emulation. Then sold it. Not sure I'd want this thing, and can’t afford it at the moment anyways. But the website did a good job of catching my interest. And if I was in the market for a handheld gaming system, this page would be enough for me to begin looking into it further. And my point is, there may be more people out there than you realize who are interested in a little bit of retro gaming now and then who will respond similarly positively to that page as what I did.

em3rgent0rdr 5y ago

Why call it "AnalogueOS" if it is digital?

pjerem 5y ago
Because Analogue is the name of the company. And they are named like this because they claim to do real execution (and not emulation) of games through FPGA chips and not through emulators.
- em3rgent0rdr 5y ago
  "FPGA" (field programmable gate array) chips are still digital.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

iamevn 5y ago

is there any indication of whether you can capture video off an analogue pocket? from what I can tell you need to buy the dock (which is out of stock) and capture hdmi?

louhike 5y ago
As fas as we know, yes, you would need the dock.

Causality1 5y ago

"The Library of Alexandria of video games" is not the title of the page nor does it appear on the page at all. Per the HN submission guidelines: please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.

Klaster_1 5y ago

Talking about “Library of Alexandria of video games”, I wonder how much video games were lost forever after Underground Gamer was shut down. Without the easy access, these games won't get as much publicity as before and crazy projects like documenting every single PC-88 game in English (kudos to Oleg) become much harder.

Lutzb 5y ago
It is still mystery to me that no followed in the foot steps of underground gamer to this day.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
The damage caused by these copyright monopolists cannot be calculated. The fall of what.cd was a pretty big hit too...

olah_1 5y ago

I thought that Analogue required the cartridge to play these old games? How does that work with this concept of playlists and stuff?

notafraudster 5y ago
They do (unless you use the jailbreak firmware for their devices, which is made by the same guy that makes the official firmware under some cockamamie plausible deniability scheme) -- but that's what makes it weird that they would emphasize this incredibly stupid playlist/library function. Since on the official firmware you'll have to swap carts anyway, what difference does it make that you have a "playlist"?

twelvechairs 5y ago

The text leaves a lot to be desired. It seems to be an OS designed to interact with FPGA chips. Whats not explained is why this is better than using other OSs for the same goal, and why this is definitively better than using software emulation (which seems fine to me as an outisder for anything ive wanted in this space). This is the information i need to decide if it can be 'definitive' and 'conclusive' compared to other options which is their stated design goal. 'Library of alexandria' is another red herring of copy text. A library is about providing access to information, which AFAIK the data (games here) are available in lots of places already

rat87 5y ago
> are available in lots of places already The same is true about the 'Library of Alexandria'

nicolas_t 5y ago

I would not recommend Analogue at all, they deliver half baked products that fail to deliver what they promised and give non-answer when contacting support. When they announced the NT mini noir restock, they announced it would have support for sega genesis through the jailbreak so I bought it on that basis. But when the jailbreak (which is not released directly by an "independent" party that has access to the internals and all the information needed to release them), the sega genesis support had a very weird mapping making it impossible to play most games correctly (the c button is mapped to the select button on the genesis controller from 8bitdo). Me and a few people complained to support who despite promises of looking into it did nothing at all. If it was opensource, I could just fix it but right now I have a very expensive console that only does half of what it promised.

wk_end 5y ago
Indeed. The Super NT (which I own) was billed as a perfect, “reference-grade”, 100% accurate Super Nintendo clone, but it had for years - and in some cases continues to have, after many firmware updates with months of silence from the company in between - various compatibility bugs, big and small, even with hugely popular games like Chrono Trigger. Their products are good, but not exceptional, and every other aspect of the company (ordering, shipping, support, communication) is infuriating. I suspect that they make their products in short supply more out an aim of cultivating an air of exclusivity than because of actual supply chain limitations. Describing their mediocre emulator front end as a “library of Alexandria” for scholarly video game preservation is hyperbolic to the point of being offense to the people who actually have committed themselves to game preservation. It’s ridiculous.

tetrisgm 5y ago

It’s hilarious reading the negative comments here because it’s completely out of sync with the way Analogue’s audience perceives them. They’re seen as a high quality, craftsmanship driven shop. Their current consoles offer extremely high fidelity emulation. There’s an attention to detail that’s to the point where original hardware quirks, limitations of accessories are maintained. You can go pretty deep with the way the color palette, the pixel shapes, and the scanlines are rendered. Their current OS (for thw NT and such) feels like a file manager that could run on an NES. It’s ok. To see them invest into making it more capable, and more versatile is a great thing. You can’t get this level of service with a SNES Mini or a NES Mini. This is exciting!

jogu 5y ago
Yes, it's quite interesting seeing all the negative feedback. To be honest, I don't quite understand it. I've purchased both the Super Nt and Mega Sg and have been extremely pleased with them. They're extremely high quality and strike a great balance between providing an authentic experience for the console while being reasonable to use with a modern TV. And to be blunt, aren't even an unreasonable price when compared to the alternatives for making the original hardware usable with similar fidelity and features.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  > To be honest, I don't quite understand it. It's gamers. That is all there is to it. The entire gaming community is rotten to the core. Don't ever put yourself in a position where you have gamers as customers.
spicybright 5y ago
Hardware quirk preservation have always been a MAJOR focus of emulators since they existed. Almost every console emulator has been iterated on by millions of people to produce emulation as accurately as possible. The FPGA part is a really weird focus to me. From what I understand their emulation systems don't run as many games glitch free, as they don't have the same man power to recreate all of that in FPGA. You can't copy out raw game consoles schematics into into it, you need to have an FPGA programmer re-make it and make sure every rom runs against it. If anything, this shoots their "scholarly" claim in the foot from the start. Rendering mode shaders usually require a bit of setup, but it's also been around for years. I think around 2005 is the first I heard of a good CRT shader that imitated pixel shapes, color signal blur, monitor curvature, etc. I guess my main argument is, I could make a RetroPi in a few hours with every emulator, and every rom, and meet all of the marketing criteria with better settings. Including better compatibility. Assuming they're trying to advertise to my market, why would I pay 50x the cost for an inferior product? Why wouldn't they start from where emulation enthusiasts currently are instead of way behind?

stared 5y ago

It is not "Library of Alexandria of video games" - I felt deceived after visiting the page. It is a Steamdeck for old games. The link should be changed especially as the HN rules suggest to edit out clickbaits, not to add them. Compare and contrast with actual collections: - https://archive.org/details/classicpcgames https://archive.org/details/classicpcgames - https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/ https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/

Kipters 5y ago

Now, if you could actually get the Pocket...