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An underwater mystery on Canada's coast
- zoomablemind 5y agoNot sure which is the primary source (BBC is very much likely), but [1] gives more details on the look of the stake sites, the discovered locations, and most intriguingly (for myself) the supposed design of the fish traps. [1]: https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/first-nation-komoks-0015946 https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/fir...
- cassepipe 5y agoYes, but [1] also seems to be the kind of websites that promotes mystical/conspirational stuff about how the aliens/atlants actually built the pyramids with state-of-the-art alien tech and how they already had batteries, aircrafts... Although they will never say it out loud, you have to watch the documentaries until the end. The conspirational part is how the egyptologist/archeologist lobby try prevent us from the knowing the truth. The video editing and false truthes in them also look like any other conspiracy-theory video. It's innocuous but had to be noted.
- zoomablemind 5y ago> ... Yes, but [1] also seems to be the kind of websites that promotes mystical/conspirational stuff... I can't vouch for the site [1] itself, I just wish the BBC Travel article was more illustrative about the subject, it kept me wondering what the described staked fish traps were supposed to look like.
- vmception 5y agoReading this and the talk about how “surprising” it is reminds me of how I’ve been researching British Columbia’s relationship with First Nations people, and this research extended to other people in the Pacific Northwest under the US system. My takeaway is that everything about this is heavily misunderstood. As CPG Grey also concluded, the entire concept is overinclusive, to its detriment. As we squabble between terms like indigenous, First Nations, native American, Indian, we are missing that these are all distinct cultures and there is no overarching grouping really possible. Each distinct group has its own name, own customs, own case law and enjoyed its own sovereignty at one point, and should be addressed by the name of their people, at the same standard we distinguish people by country or religion. British Columbia is uniquely addressing this, with rights conveyances group by group. But it is a very long way from being closer to accurate. I think accelerating this relies on non First Nations people understanding that there is no overarching term possible (I dare say, including “First Nations”) and that the map of North America should be dotted with microstates just like Europe is
- angelzen 5y agoEurope is far from being dotted with microstates. There are a handful of relics, but most of Europe has been unified under some larger nation state. For a historical perspective, a political map of pre-1800 Germany with 'up to 350 states': https://twitter.com/weird_hist/status/1260451732221542400 https://twitter.com/weird_hist/status/1260451732221542400
- vmception 5y agoI think that neither enhances or dilutes my point. Modern microstates are the nearest analog. But they are on more kinds of maps, lists of countries, and the people currently on reservations should have something more similar to that.
- angelzen 5y agoModern Europe is not a good comparison. Something like Papua-New Guinea is probably closer. Not even sure how far into Europe's past one needs to go to find an ethno-political system similar to B.C. circa 1800. Medieval Europe? The era of Greek city states? https://www.muturzikin.com/cartesoceanie/oceanie2.htm https://www.muturzikin.com/cartesoceanie/oceanie2.htm
- vmception 5y agoSure, I’ll bite: how would you describe Papau-New Guinea’s system in a way that could quickly convey an enhancement to what the reservation and other treaties around North America, since “Microstate like Europe” doesn’t convey that - to some
- angelzen 5y agoTo the best of my understanding, B.C. circa 1800 can be described as 'patchwork of sovereign micro-ethnic groups in rugged terrain' Europe microstates: Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican, Liechtenstein, Faeroe, maybe Iceland and Luxembourg. Relics of times long past, historical curiosities. Papua NewGuinea: 832 living languages, presumably each with an independent history tracing hundreds if not thousands of years. Most of them with <3k speakers each. The largest ones with <250k speakers. https://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Papuan.html https://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Papuan.html
- throwaway20875 5y agoNot included in article: photos relevant to the actual mysteries.
- djmips 5y agosee top post
- sandworm101 5y agoLocal reporting with much better pictures, diagrams and even a locally-produced podcast. https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-ingenious-ancient-technology-concealed-in-the-shallows/ https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/the-ingenious-ancient...
- 8bitsrule 5y agoThanks. Wow, what a beautifully done online-magazine. (A ~ 20 person operation) RSS Feeds: [https://www.hakaimagazine.com/rss-feeds/ https://www.hakaimagazine.com/rss-feeds/] Lots of YT videos too. [https://www.youtube.com/c/HakaiMagazine/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/HakaiMagazine/videos]
- cfn 5y agoThis should be the link at the top. The BBC article doesn't even have a picture of the remnants of the stakes!
- mattowen_uk 5y agoBBC News articles are mostly now written by AI pulling from other newsfeeds. It's only really good enough for the 80% who don't actually care about news, information, or actually learning anything.
- dzdt 5y agoSource? If a major respected journalism outfit was using AI to generate stories I think that would be news itself, and I haven't heard it, outside of the corner-case of within-seconds earthquake reporting.
- mattowen_uk 5y ago- https://wan-ifra.org/2021/06/how-bbc-news-labs-uses-ai-powered-content-automation-to-engage-young-audiences/ https://wan-ifra.org/2021/06/how-bbc-news-labs-uses-ai-power... - https://artificialintelligence-news.com/2017/10/19/bbc-ai-improve-content/ https://artificialintelligence-news.com/2017/10/19/bbc-ai-im... - https://techhq.com/2019/12/machines-wrote-the-bbcs-uk-election-results-articles/ https://techhq.com/2019/12/machines-wrote-the-bbcs-uk-electi...
- billfruit 5y agoBBCs headlines leave much to be desired. They dont want to summarise the article in the headline, they merely want to pique the readers interest.
- mhh__ 5y agoThey also edit them to something more detailed after a few hours sometimes, slightly devious.
- arpa 5y agoIf anything, headlines like these make me avoid clicking. My attention is a scarce resource. I'm not going to read through a longform (unless it's from damninteresting.com - but I purposefully go there for longform trivia) if I have no idea of the longforms' relevance to my current interests.
- 0xTJ 5y agoI usually try to avoid clicking them out of spite. I'm sure that they've found that it overall increases viewership, otherwise they wouldn't do it, but I hate that this is what news is now.
- Noam-grin 5y agoCool
- mattowen_uk 5y agoHi, I see you are new here, so I want to spend a minute explaining HN comments, before you get voted down to oblivion by other users... The community tends to vote down comments that add no value to the conversation, or are simply single word responses. The FAQ has some good pointers: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Hope this helps, and welcome to HN! :)
- peter_retief 5y agoThere are a number of fish traps along the coast of Southern Africa http://fynbosstrand.yolasite.com/visvywers.php http://fynbosstrand.yolasite.com/visvywers.php
- satori99 5y agoThey exist all over Australia too. Some of them are thought to be amongst the oldest examples of human construction on Earth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewarrina_Aboriginal_Fish_Traps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewarrina_Aboriginal_Fish_Tra...
- peter_retief 5y agoReally interesting, the history of humans is constantly surprising.
- mrfusion 5y agoWhat’s the line of sticks down the middle with no fencing on it for?
- iamshs 5y agoProbably to direct more fish into the trap, which otherwise would've swam to the other side totally oblivious of the trap. Efficiency is increased by that middle fence. Edited to add excerpt from the original paper. >A leader set in a linear direction more or less perpendicular to the shore so that fish approaching the leader turn and are guided toward deeper water and the trap; a leader that bisects the trap’s entrance to allow fish to enter the enclosure from either side of the fence (i.e., on a rising or a falling tide); a pair of bilaterally-positioned wings that form a V-shaped funnel entry to concentrate and redirect fish toward the trap enclosure’s entrance; and an entrance which incorporates species specific design characteristics (i.e., the width of the entrance and non-return devices) to only allow certain types of schooling fish to easily enter the enclosure and, once inside, prevent their escape.
- markdown 5y agoSomeone I know recently posted a photo of similar structures in use in Kiribati. They're made with rocks instead of wooden poles though. https://twitter.com/mytagimoucia/status/1445189713535528961 https://twitter.com/mytagimoucia/status/1445189713535528961
- giantg2 5y agoI remember learning about fish traps similar to these. They used a similar design but with modern nets in the Chesapeake. Not sure what the timeframe was for their use or if they are still used today.
- karaterobot 5y ago> Until recently, the sophisticated technology had been overlooked by Western science. This feels like an overstatement. Fish traps are a very well-understood technology, and we've always known coastal people used them. This discovery is significant because of its scale, and how the site itself was overlooked, not because it represents evidence of previously-ignored technology.
- Kluny 5y agoRtfa
- karaterobot 5y agoI literally quoted the article.
- mandmandam 5y ago> Here, the Kwakwaka'wakw People built monumental rock walls, large enough to be seen from space I can see a sidewalk from space by opening Google Earth. I propose we kill that expression. The BBC also neglect to mention imminent climactic changes and the effect warming will have on local fish; rather important context looking forward.