7 ms·

So, not homeopathy?

boomboomsubban 5y ago
I get their point, homeopathy has two bs gimmicks. The first is to use a substance that causes the ailment as a cure, the second is to replace that substance with water/sugar and the idea of the substance. Using a blue substance to cure someone who's blue is similar to the first gimmick, but here they actually use the substance and medically tested it.
- ocimbote 5y ago
  For the sake of clarity: I will not stand on the side of homeopathy, ever. It's placebo effect marketing rather than evidence-based science and hence not worth my money.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    I didn't think you did, but valid things can share traits with bullshit and still be valid things.
    - ocimbote 5y ago
      This is correct and too often ignored. Bullshit owns nothing:)
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    What about when placebo-based medicine offers better patient outcomes, for certain disorders? E.g., for sleep medicine without side effects? We used homeopathy for my daughters car sickness and it worked great.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      Did you know stretching before a car trip prevents all but the worst car sickness? Both my chiropractor and my acupuncturist recommended it and I haven't suffered from car sickness since. There, I saved you the cost of the water pills. You don't need costly, potentially dangerous additive laced medicine if you're just looking for the placebo effect.
      - dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Yeah, but she feels sick in the car. Then we give her a pill. There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy, that’s the dilution effect. Another thread trending on the value of placebo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705
        boomboomsubban 5y ago
        >There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy Some of the pills are made using toxic fillers. It's not enough I'd panic over, you can get the placebo effect without ingesting anything shady/expensive.
        dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Do you have a source for homeopathy being made from toxic filers? I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
        boomboomsubban 5y ago
        I can't find specifics about homeopathic fillers, but any pill not regulated by the FDA is likely to use cheap fillers that are often toxic. Vitamins are where you commonly hear about this, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary_supplements_by_the_U.S._Food_and_Drug_Administration#Dietary_supplements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary... I did find this, https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teething-gels-may-have-killed-10-babies-sickened-400/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teet... which shows there is some risk, though again you're most likely fine. >I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect. For you, sure. For your daughter, I bet your confident recommendation is the most important aspect.
    - ocimbote 5y ago
      Placebo is very powerful and is actually validated by scientific research. So when the conditions are here, as they seemingly were for your daughters, it's great. Yet, homeopathy, when considered as a potent product, didn't help, because it is not potent. The conditions enabling the placebo effect did. And no one would complain about that :) The problem arises when homeopathy is sold and marketed as potent _per se_.
- Scarblac 5y ago
  It has three gimmicks, the first is to never look at causes, only at symptoms. Then use a substance that causes the same symptom (usually not the ailment, only one of the symptoms), and then dilute it away. So it scores 2 out of 3. But the dilution part is important :)

So, not homeopathy?

I get their point, homeopathy has two bs gimmicks. The first is to use a substance that causes the ailment as a cure, the second is to replace that substance with water/sugar and the idea of the substance. Using a blue substance to cure someone who's blue is similar to the first gimmick, but here they actually use the substance and medically tested it.

ocimbote 5y ago
For the sake of clarity: I will not stand on the side of homeopathy, ever. It's placebo effect marketing rather than evidence-based science and hence not worth my money.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  I didn't think you did, but valid things can share traits with bullshit and still be valid things.
  - ocimbote 5y ago
    This is correct and too often ignored. Bullshit owns nothing:)
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  What about when placebo-based medicine offers better patient outcomes, for certain disorders? E.g., for sleep medicine without side effects? We used homeopathy for my daughters car sickness and it worked great.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    Did you know stretching before a car trip prevents all but the worst car sickness? Both my chiropractor and my acupuncturist recommended it and I haven't suffered from car sickness since. There, I saved you the cost of the water pills. You don't need costly, potentially dangerous additive laced medicine if you're just looking for the placebo effect.
    - dr_dshiv 5y ago
      Yeah, but she feels sick in the car. Then we give her a pill. There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy, that’s the dilution effect. Another thread trending on the value of placebo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887705
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        >There is nothing dangerous in homeopathy Some of the pills are made using toxic fillers. It's not enough I'd panic over, you can get the placebo effect without ingesting anything shady/expensive.
        dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Do you have a source for homeopathy being made from toxic filers? I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect.
        boomboomsubban 5y ago
        I can't find specifics about homeopathic fillers, but any pill not regulated by the FDA is likely to use cheap fillers that are often toxic. Vitamins are where you commonly hear about this, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary_supplements_by_the_U.S._Food_and_Drug_Administration#Dietary_supplements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary... I did find this, https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teething-gels-may-have-killed-10-babies-sickened-400/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teet... which shows there is some risk, though again you're most likely fine. >I’d hypothesize that the more expensive the pill, the better the effect. For you, sure. For your daughter, I bet your confident recommendation is the most important aspect.
  - ocimbote 5y ago
    Placebo is very powerful and is actually validated by scientific research. So when the conditions are here, as they seemingly were for your daughters, it's great. Yet, homeopathy, when considered as a potent product, didn't help, because it is not potent. The conditions enabling the placebo effect did. And no one would complain about that :) The problem arises when homeopathy is sold and marketed as potent _per se_.
Scarblac 5y ago
It has three gimmicks, the first is to never look at causes, only at symptoms. Then use a substance that causes the same symptom (usually not the ailment, only one of the symptoms), and then dilute it away. So it scores 2 out of 3. But the dilution part is important :)