5 ms·
Out of curiosity what is the best counter argument to the general thesis, eg either what positives come entangled in the hot mess or reasons it’s not a hot mess
by stevehind 5y ago
Out of curiosity what is the best counter argument to the general thesis, eg either what positives come entangled in the hot mess or reasons it’s not a hot mess?
- tyingq 5y agoHigh tool churn creates an ecosystem where you get paid well for knowing the new hotness.
- nsonha 5y agoThat's a myth. I've been in a lot of tech interviews, no one gives a shit about what tools you use. Maybe things like terraform or docker, but not the libraries or tools inside the projects, no. You get a pat in the back maybe.
- tyingq 5y agoGetting to the interview often means your resume making it past a recruiter that doesn't know much other than keyword matching. And there's plenty of job listings with granular things like redux, eslint, webpack, and so on in them.
- nsonha 5y agoI'd put them on the CV and add a line saying many of these are for SEO. No need to actually try to master them. Find more interesting things to learn that can enrich your software engineer mind.
- ch4s3 5y agoI think this is the best defense of the churn.
- Gigachad 5y agoCurrently getting paid in the 4th percentile in Australia as a ruby/js dev with no formal education. Who cares what the js ecosystem is like if companies are willing to shell out whatever it costs to get devs to work on their web app. Having JavaScript app devs is basically a license for companies to print money right now.
- musingsole 5y agoThat while it might be difficult to articulate, the churn of technologies does represent a meaningful search and forward march of progress. The churn is the result of ever more rapid progress on an increasingly abstract knowledge system. However, it is hard to recognize positive structural change as just another worker bee in the hive.
- systemvoltage 5y agoI don't buy this. The whole thing is enabled by hard work of browser developers enabling all this hot mess without much performance impact. JS is blazing fast and it creates a massive wild-wild-west of framework gold rush. Instead of being responsible, they create ever more bloatware that doesn't stand for 6 months.
- tyingq 5y agoIt's interesting you chose "march" because I see it as not that. There is rapid forward progress, as you say, but it's individual parts sprinting at different paces. "March" would imply they were moving together.
- mattgreenrocks 5y agoThis is too simplistic. Progress is not inevitable. There is no guarantee that the objective being optimized by the JavaScript Community(tm) is necessarily a better one than before. Churn can easily be driven by fashion as much as what you call “progress.”
- loic-sharma 5y agoA developer today can create better apps with less experience today than they could 20 years ago.
- runarberg 5y agoThe other side of the coin is that we are getting better tools. Vue 3 with the composition API is a lot easier to work with, reason about and maintain then the legacy API. However the real counter argument is that vanilla javascript apps are also easier to write these days. If you have only a small interface to something that you have to maintain but only infrequently, perhaps a vanilla app is better suited. Vue apps are better suited if you want/need to a) get things running quickly (e.g. a prototype) and/or b) have a team of developers which need to maintain a large codebase together.
- jitl 5y agoDon’t install a UI toolkit dependency because you heard it’s the new hotness on Twitter?
- pixelgeek 5y agowell you can always write your own framework. I'ver had to do that a few times and the main benefit is that it fits your coding style and you're the only one that can break it.
- Phaedor 5y agoIts a result of a lot of trial and error and finding better way of doing things. I dont think anyone likes it, but its byproduct of moving fast and of requirements changing. Personally I think the web-frontend ecosystem is getting closer to stabilizing. For example React has not been changing much recently in its API and most of its development happens under the hood. A counterexample right now is bundlers. Webpack was the king for a long time, but it has gained more and more features and the code bases it is working on are bigger so its getting slow and complex. Competitors like esbuild and vite that are simpler and faster are popping up. However this is not the fault of webpack but simply that the requirements has changed so much and webpack always had to follow the requirements. Now that the requirements are starting to stabilize new alternatives can be built that can skip all the cruft. I find it interesting how people in this thread are praising python frameworks for being so stable, I'm in my mid thirties and I clearly remember a time when they weren't.
- koonsolo 5y agoEither you move slow and keep things stable, or you move fast and break things. Pick one.