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As a recovering alcoholic, I've noticed a tendency for non-alcoholics to look for a reason a person might drink themselves to death. People love stories, especi

As a recovering alcoholic, I've noticed a tendency for non-alcoholics to look for a reason a person might drink themselves to death. People love stories, especially tragic stories. In this case the story is "The FBI drove him to drink and suicide." This story has a bad guy and a tragedy. The problem with this is twofold. The FBI followed a lot more people who didn't drink themselves to death. Second, alcoholism is a disease like cancer. It takes people out for no good reason. Many people have had periods of heavy drinking and wonder if it was alcoholism. It wasn't because they stopped. Alcoholics can't stop drinking without help. Then when you add mental illness to the situation, which many do in Hemingway's case, it becomes even less based the circumstances and more about the disease of alcoholism comorbid with bipolar disorder. The FBI looking at him was stressful no doubt, but it's not why he drank or shot himself.

koanws 5y ago
Also lot of people have no fucking clue what its like to be around alcoholics with mental health issues. Especially men in authority/influencial positions. There are lot of functioning alcoholics in power, who develop all kinds of survival strategies using their status to the max. Society has poor ways of handling it.
- deleted 5y ago
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perl4ever 5y ago
>The FBI looking at him was stressful no doubt, but it's not why he drank or shot himself. It doesn't really make sense, and is rather an offense to normal morality, to say that because someone has a disability, that weakens them in terms of resisting abuse or torture, that it mitigates the responsibility of the perpetrators. In support of this being a societal norm, here: "The eggshell rule (also thin skull rule or talem qualem rule)[1] is a well-established legal doctrine in common law, used in some tort law systems,[2] with a similar doctrine applicable to criminal law. The rule states that, in a tort case, the unexpected frailty of the injured person is not a valid defense to the seriousness of any injury caused to them" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull
- okareaman 5y ago
  IF you want to have a larger discussion about the abuse of power by the FBI under J Edgar Hoover, there is plenty of material to work with. My point was that the general public wants to attach a story to someone who drinks or drugs themselves to death. People are more comfortable with reasons and they don't understand that death from alcoholism and bipolar depression often doesn't need a reason other than diseases themselves. People often think "Oh yeah, people die from cancer" without needing any other reason, but this is not the case with death from alcoholism and bipolar disorder.
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    >and bipolar disorder Really? How do you know? Anyone with a major mental illness on their record is never going to get the same medical treatment they would otherwise. It doesn't have to be directly related. Any complaints will be discounted, and they will know that, so they won't complain as much, and then when they do, it will sound odd, and that will cause people to take them less seriously, and so on.

koanws 5y ago

Also lot of people have no fucking clue what its like to be around alcoholics with mental health issues. Especially men in authority/influencial positions. There are lot of functioning alcoholics in power, who develop all kinds of survival strategies using their status to the max. Society has poor ways of handling it.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

perl4ever 5y ago

>The FBI looking at him was stressful no doubt, but it's not why he drank or shot himself. It doesn't really make sense, and is rather an offense to normal morality, to say that because someone has a disability, that weakens them in terms of resisting abuse or torture, that it mitigates the responsibility of the perpetrators. In support of this being a societal norm, here: "The eggshell rule (also thin skull rule or talem qualem rule)[1] is a well-established legal doctrine in common law, used in some tort law systems,[2] with a similar doctrine applicable to criminal law. The rule states that, in a tort case, the unexpected frailty of the injured person is not a valid defense to the seriousness of any injury caused to them" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

okareaman 5y ago
IF you want to have a larger discussion about the abuse of power by the FBI under J Edgar Hoover, there is plenty of material to work with. My point was that the general public wants to attach a story to someone who drinks or drugs themselves to death. People are more comfortable with reasons and they don't understand that death from alcoholism and bipolar depression often doesn't need a reason other than diseases themselves. People often think "Oh yeah, people die from cancer" without needing any other reason, but this is not the case with death from alcoholism and bipolar disorder.
- perl4ever 5y ago
  >and bipolar disorder Really? How do you know? Anyone with a major mental illness on their record is never going to get the same medical treatment they would otherwise. It doesn't have to be directly related. Any complaints will be discounted, and they will know that, so they won't complain as much, and then when they do, it will sound odd, and that will cause people to take them less seriously, and so on.