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As someone who wants to maintain his own blog: This is pretty concerning. Why should I need to publish my address for all to see in order to make a blog? And ye

As someone who wants to maintain his own blog: This is pretty concerning. Why should I need to publish my address for all to see in order to make a blog? And yes, I know that blogging platforms exist, but I don't want to rely on them. It kinda makes me wonder if this is a push towards further centralization on the web.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
i dont quite unerstand this. does this imply we are forced to give out our verifiable home address? i remember buying domains and just putting "001, abc street, 892032, india" in the fields. is this forcing me to change that to my home address?
pluc 5y ago
Because there's a box labeled 'address' doesn't mean you should put your address in there.
- meowface 5y ago
  My understanding is this would make it illegal to not put your real address there. You can willingly break the law, but that'll create other issues for you.
  - travoc 5y ago
    My address is a mailbox store in Missouri.
    - mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
      Mailing addresses that are not your physical address may be a decent workaround, but should that even be necessary?
    - ISL 5y ago
      When opening a mailbox, I had to provide ID and a notarized signature.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    As someone who doesn't live in the EU why should I concern myself with their laws? It sounds bad, but I won't obey it.
    - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
      The registrar is subject to EU law, so they could be forced to limit or remove your access to your domain
    - 3np 5y ago
      This proposal is regarding EU TLD registrars. Country TLDs in the EU (.de, .fr, .se etc) already require you to be an EU resident. So you wouldn't be subject to these rules as you're not entitled to hold one of those domains.
      - jeltz 5y ago
        You are wrong about at least .se. You do not need to be sn EU resident to own a .se domain.
  - jobigoud 5y ago
    But will you also need to update it when you move?
iratewizard 5y ago
What's left of the old web may just have to move behind subdomains so only one person gives up their privacy. I'm glad I bought a 5 letter url for a project like that.
SiempreViernes 5y ago
Because you're supposed to be responsible for what you publish? Or as quoted in the article itself: > For those that say this is a hit to privacy: this operates the same way it would if you were buying property anywhere else. Yes, it's digital property, but you should have to be responsible for that permissive SPF record allowing relay of malware spam in the same way you have to be responsive when there's a gas leak on physical property. In any case, self hosting a blog seems like a pretty weird step if what you're after is good anonymity.
- hyproxia 5y ago
  >In any case, self hosting a blog seems like a pretty weird step if what you're after is good anonymity. I'm not after anonymity, I just don't want my address and phone number to be easily available to every nutcase out there.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  There is a world of difference between being Satoshi level of anonymous and being an open book for anyone on planet earth to try to SWAT.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
Maybe if the web becomes bad enough people will start using onion hidden services for everything instead. Why not publish blogs that way? It even allows you to be anonymous.
- hyproxia 5y ago
  >Why not publish blogs that way? Because onion sites are slower, harder to access, not easily searchable, and not easily protected against DDoS attacks.
  - travoc 5y ago
    Most of these things were once said about sites that used SSL.
    - sigstoat 5y ago
      > Most of these things were once said about sites that used SSL. in the sense that every possible thing has been said about everything, sure. and to a slightly greater extent maybe they were said about trying to SSL-ify _everything_. but "gee maybe shouldn't SSL-ify sites handling sensitive data" has never been a serious talking point.
    - amadeuspagel 5y ago
      The speed of light is a hard limit on improving the performance of onion sites. Having your requests routed through six (edit: random) servers is always going to be slow.
      - cassonmars 5y ago
        Your traffic is certainly going over more than six links to get to you today, the only difference is clearnet traffic direction is organized for efficiency. TOR has inefficiency baked into the design for the purpose of privacy.
        5y ago
charcircuit 5y ago
Because sometimes people need to contact you and mail is one such way to send a message.
- mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
  What’s wrong with e-mail?
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    Some people don't check their email so a physical letter can be used as a backup.
    - short12 5y ago
      Some people don't check their mail either
      - jobigoud 5y ago
        But you can send a letter with proof of reception so at least they know if you received it or not.
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  In Canada, if a copyright holder notices you are downloading something they own the rights to, e.g. because you are using torrent, they cannot ask the ISP for your name or address. The only recourse they have, short of going through the expensive and lengthy court process, is that they can give the ISP a note which they are legally required to forward to the client. It's a simple system. Your privacy remains preserved and you get the messages too. Why not mandate an email forwarding service by registrars if that's what they are after?
lunatuna 5y ago
The article doesn’t state that it will be published. It states that the registrar must have it. The Pirate Party member, as mentioned in the article, didn’t read the proposal.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  That's one subpoena or warrant away from it being published to people who you don't want to have it.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    Or hack, misconfiguration, data leak, insider, etc.
  - wmf 5y ago
    Like real estate and vehicles, domain registrations probably shouldn't be too private by default.
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    That's a bit separate from the notion of privacy - warantless searches violate privacy, but there is (nor should be) any expectation of privacy given a valid warrant; valid warrants is the scenario where we the people have decided (and written in our laws and constitutions) that you should not be able to keep things hidden.
dathinab 5y ago
To quote the quote this is about: > "Member States shall ensure that the TLD registries and the entities providing domain name registration services for the TLD publish, without undue delay after the registration of a domain name, domain registration data which are not personal data." Your address is personal data, so is email, phone number, more or less any contact information etc. So what is not personal data? Mainly thinks like that the domain had been registered through godaddy, i.e. thinks a police agency needs to know, to know where to go with a curt order for actual private information. Also interesting: It's for the TLD, I wonder if they have a clear definition of it, or else .co.uk and similar would no longer be covered (not that it matters anymore). But what definitely should not be covered are sub-domain registrars. Through I haven't read the draft of the directive, so I can't tell you if there are some uncanny effects between article 23 and other articles.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

i dont quite unerstand this. does this imply we are forced to give out our verifiable home address? i remember buying domains and just putting "001, abc street, 892032, india" in the fields. is this forcing me to change that to my home address?

pluc 5y ago

Because there's a box labeled 'address' doesn't mean you should put your address in there.

meowface 5y ago
My understanding is this would make it illegal to not put your real address there. You can willingly break the law, but that'll create other issues for you.
- travoc 5y ago
  My address is a mailbox store in Missouri.
  - mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
    Mailing addresses that are not your physical address may be a decent workaround, but should that even be necessary?
  - ISL 5y ago
    When opening a mailbox, I had to provide ID and a notarized signature.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  As someone who doesn't live in the EU why should I concern myself with their laws? It sounds bad, but I won't obey it.
  - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
    The registrar is subject to EU law, so they could be forced to limit or remove your access to your domain
  - 3np 5y ago
    This proposal is regarding EU TLD registrars. Country TLDs in the EU (.de, .fr, .se etc) already require you to be an EU resident. So you wouldn't be subject to these rules as you're not entitled to hold one of those domains.
    - jeltz 5y ago
      You are wrong about at least .se. You do not need to be sn EU resident to own a .se domain.
- jobigoud 5y ago
  But will you also need to update it when you move?

iratewizard 5y ago

What's left of the old web may just have to move behind subdomains so only one person gives up their privacy. I'm glad I bought a 5 letter url for a project like that.

SiempreViernes 5y ago

Because you're supposed to be responsible for what you publish? Or as quoted in the article itself: > For those that say this is a hit to privacy: this operates the same way it would if you were buying property anywhere else. Yes, it's digital property, but you should have to be responsible for that permissive SPF record allowing relay of malware spam in the same way you have to be responsive when there's a gas leak on physical property. In any case, self hosting a blog seems like a pretty weird step if what you're after is good anonymity.

hyproxia 5y ago
>In any case, self hosting a blog seems like a pretty weird step if what you're after is good anonymity. I'm not after anonymity, I just don't want my address and phone number to be easily available to every nutcase out there.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
smnrchrds 5y ago
There is a world of difference between being Satoshi level of anonymous and being an open book for anyone on planet earth to try to SWAT.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

Maybe if the web becomes bad enough people will start using onion hidden services for everything instead. Why not publish blogs that way? It even allows you to be anonymous.

hyproxia 5y ago
>Why not publish blogs that way? Because onion sites are slower, harder to access, not easily searchable, and not easily protected against DDoS attacks.
- travoc 5y ago
  Most of these things were once said about sites that used SSL.
  - sigstoat 5y ago
    > Most of these things were once said about sites that used SSL. in the sense that every possible thing has been said about everything, sure. and to a slightly greater extent maybe they were said about trying to SSL-ify _everything_. but "gee maybe shouldn't SSL-ify sites handling sensitive data" has never been a serious talking point.
  - amadeuspagel 5y ago
    The speed of light is a hard limit on improving the performance of onion sites. Having your requests routed through six (edit: random) servers is always going to be slow.
    - cassonmars 5y ago
      Your traffic is certainly going over more than six links to get to you today, the only difference is clearnet traffic direction is organized for efficiency. TOR has inefficiency baked into the design for the purpose of privacy.
      - 5y ago

charcircuit 5y ago

Because sometimes people need to contact you and mail is one such way to send a message.

mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
What’s wrong with e-mail?
- charcircuit 5y ago
  Some people don't check their email so a physical letter can be used as a backup.
  - short12 5y ago
    Some people don't check their mail either
    - jobigoud 5y ago
      But you can send a letter with proof of reception so at least they know if you received it or not.
smnrchrds 5y ago
In Canada, if a copyright holder notices you are downloading something they own the rights to, e.g. because you are using torrent, they cannot ask the ISP for your name or address. The only recourse they have, short of going through the expensive and lengthy court process, is that they can give the ISP a note which they are legally required to forward to the client. It's a simple system. Your privacy remains preserved and you get the messages too. Why not mandate an email forwarding service by registrars if that's what they are after?

lunatuna 5y ago

The article doesn’t state that it will be published. It states that the registrar must have it. The Pirate Party member, as mentioned in the article, didn’t read the proposal.

nerdponx 5y ago
That's one subpoena or warrant away from it being published to people who you don't want to have it.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  Or hack, misconfiguration, data leak, insider, etc.
- wmf 5y ago
  Like real estate and vehicles, domain registrations probably shouldn't be too private by default.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  That's a bit separate from the notion of privacy - warantless searches violate privacy, but there is (nor should be) any expectation of privacy given a valid warrant; valid warrants is the scenario where we the people have decided (and written in our laws and constitutions) that you should not be able to keep things hidden.

dathinab 5y ago

To quote the quote this is about: > "Member States shall ensure that the TLD registries and the entities providing domain name registration services for the TLD publish, without undue delay after the registration of a domain name, domain registration data which are not personal data." Your address is personal data, so is email, phone number, more or less any contact information etc. So what is not personal data? Mainly thinks like that the domain had been registered through godaddy, i.e. thinks a police agency needs to know, to know where to go with a curt order for actual private information. Also interesting: It's for the TLD, I wonder if they have a clear definition of it, or else .co.uk and similar would no longer be covered (not that it matters anymore). But what definitely should not be covered are sub-domain registrars. Through I haven't read the draft of the directive, so I can't tell you if there are some uncanny effects between article 23 and other articles.