3 ms·

> It just seems like an example of scientists playing around with a complex system they have a very incomplete understanding of, with potentially risky outcomes

> It just seems like an example of scientists playing around with a complex system they have a very incomplete understanding of, with potentially risky outcomes. Scientists don't "play" around with medicine; this kind of stuff is highly regulated. TMS is only used to treat depression when all other treatments have failed. At that point, the benefits outweigh the risks. Namely, at that point the patient is at risk of _death_ and no other options are available. > Psychotropics are already suboptimal in that same sense (addressing symptoms, not root causes) We don't know the root causes of the vast majority of diseases. So we can't say whether psychotropics treat the root causes or not. But we do know they work. They save and improve many, many lives. And that's how modern medicine works. Does it work? Is it safe? Then we use it. All modern day treatments are suboptimal. That doesn't mean they don't work, and that doesn't mean people shouldn't use them when needed. It's interesting that I don't see these kind of skeptical comments about antihistamines. Modern antihistamines are suboptimal (I should know), but everyone with allergies is glad they exist. > I don't want to discourage anyone here from getting treatment Personally I think this comment will contribute to treatment hesitation, whether that was intended or not. Mental health is already highly stigmatized, and seeking help for it is a daunting task. Telling people that scientists are "playing" around with their brain isn't helpful. Good doctors are following a strict, science backed playbook for the treatment of mental disorders. These playbooks save lives.

concinds 5y ago
> Personally I think this comment will contribute to treatment hesitation You're right; I want to make sure to say that people should never, ever just decide to "live with" whatever ails them. There's solutions, and 99% of the time the price is worth paying. Exhaust your options but never "settle" for "this is just how my life will always be", whatever works, works. I have psychiatrists in my family so I know for a fact that psychotropics can turn someone's whole life around, durably, and do a 360° on their quality of life; and sometimes have their lives literally saved. I don't want anyone reading this to think I'm on the "antipsychiatry" side of things. I was approaching this from a "medical technology" PoV, hoping that there would be more effective, permanent treatments by now, but I hope if there are any patients or future patients reading this, that they don't write this off if nothing else worked. Don't necessarily trust every doctor (if they give you treatments that don't work or don't listen properly to your symptoms) but do listen to your doctor once you find a good one, which there are a lot of. I was using the "playing around" language out of the frustration that everyone who does have chronic illness that doctors have been unable to address (even with experimental treatments), knows. But it's very important people don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, and even more important to do whatever it takes to become unencumbered by whatever problem they have. I can't edit my comment above anymore, but I just want to say, if you have a chronic condition, you seriously can't imagine how much better your life will be once you get it under control. Trust the process, you can find solutions no matter how hopeless it feels.
herval 5y ago
While TMS should be a last resort thing, what’s actually seems to be happening (anecdotally at least) is it gets prescribed like candy - just like opioids and antidepressants. I had a pretty rough time during the pandemic and reached out to a couple clinics for maybe trying psychotherapy, and after a single 30 minutes consultation, both concluded I should try TMS first, because “it just works”. One of them literally added me to a marketing mailing and kept spamming me about it. So yea, maybe it’s highly regulated outside the US?
- chofpsychiatry 5y ago
  Highly regulated, not highly regulated. It's important people don't look too much into this defence because what matters is people get the treatment psychiatry says people need and praise be to it.
chofpsychiatry 5y ago
Psychiatrists don't play God. All they do is move people from the path of dangerousness to a different path. Its not murder if someone dies because of psychiatric treatment because, psychiatrists tell us, the person was going to die anyway. The psychiatrists know all about who will die and who will live and, like fpgaminer says, they're just regular saviours. I mean, the alternative would be to consider psychiatry as some kind of modern-day Roman Catholic Church - a group of trusted people holding esoteric knowledge that in reality falls apart at the slightest inspection but who have so far been successful at silencing critics, even violently, and are using the obscene and exclusive powers that they have granted themselves to become more and more wealthy and more and more influential in policy-making. As history shows us, this is highly unlikely. In fact, as psychiatrists themselves tell us, thinking that would be crazy. We must suspect ourselves and everyone around us except for psychiatrists, like healthy people. This is all perfectly logical because it is science and, frankly, it is surprising anyone would have qualms. Also, continuing fpgmaminer's thought, we must begin destigmatizing slavery. There are a lot of people who are fit for slavery but are resistant to it because of the stigma around conservateeship.

concinds 5y ago

> Personally I think this comment will contribute to treatment hesitation You're right; I want to make sure to say that people should never, ever just decide to "live with" whatever ails them. There's solutions, and 99% of the time the price is worth paying. Exhaust your options but never "settle" for "this is just how my life will always be", whatever works, works. I have psychiatrists in my family so I know for a fact that psychotropics can turn someone's whole life around, durably, and do a 360° on their quality of life; and sometimes have their lives literally saved. I don't want anyone reading this to think I'm on the "antipsychiatry" side of things. I was approaching this from a "medical technology" PoV, hoping that there would be more effective, permanent treatments by now, but I hope if there are any patients or future patients reading this, that they don't write this off if nothing else worked. Don't necessarily trust every doctor (if they give you treatments that don't work or don't listen properly to your symptoms) but do listen to your doctor once you find a good one, which there are a lot of. I was using the "playing around" language out of the frustration that everyone who does have chronic illness that doctors have been unable to address (even with experimental treatments), knows. But it's very important people don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, and even more important to do whatever it takes to become unencumbered by whatever problem they have. I can't edit my comment above anymore, but I just want to say, if you have a chronic condition, you seriously can't imagine how much better your life will be once you get it under control. Trust the process, you can find solutions no matter how hopeless it feels.

herval 5y ago

While TMS should be a last resort thing, what’s actually seems to be happening (anecdotally at least) is it gets prescribed like candy - just like opioids and antidepressants. I had a pretty rough time during the pandemic and reached out to a couple clinics for maybe trying psychotherapy, and after a single 30 minutes consultation, both concluded I should try TMS first, because “it just works”. One of them literally added me to a marketing mailing and kept spamming me about it. So yea, maybe it’s highly regulated outside the US?

chofpsychiatry 5y ago
Highly regulated, not highly regulated. It's important people don't look too much into this defence because what matters is people get the treatment psychiatry says people need and praise be to it.

chofpsychiatry 5y ago

Psychiatrists don't play God. All they do is move people from the path of dangerousness to a different path. Its not murder if someone dies because of psychiatric treatment because, psychiatrists tell us, the person was going to die anyway. The psychiatrists know all about who will die and who will live and, like fpgaminer says, they're just regular saviours. I mean, the alternative would be to consider psychiatry as some kind of modern-day Roman Catholic Church - a group of trusted people holding esoteric knowledge that in reality falls apart at the slightest inspection but who have so far been successful at silencing critics, even violently, and are using the obscene and exclusive powers that they have granted themselves to become more and more wealthy and more and more influential in policy-making. As history shows us, this is highly unlikely. In fact, as psychiatrists themselves tell us, thinking that would be crazy. We must suspect ourselves and everyone around us except for psychiatrists, like healthy people. This is all perfectly logical because it is science and, frankly, it is surprising anyone would have qualms. Also, continuing fpgmaminer's thought, we must begin destigmatizing slavery. There are a lot of people who are fit for slavery but are resistant to it because of the stigma around conservateeship.