3 ms·

Non-Toxic Gas to Be Deployed in 100 NYC Locations in Bio-Attack Readiness Test

13 points by sahin 5y ago

sschueller 5y ago
Is this really the best way to study this? First of all you can do this only infrequently, you need special equipment to measure the gas at specific locations and you will fuel conspiracies about the gas and possibly cause panic if the gas is visible to those who are not informed. Instead you could spend the money to build an accurate computer model and simulate hundreds of possibilities, different wind directions, traffic conditions etc.
- onecommentman 5y ago
  You can spend lotsa money on pure simulations (only hundreds?) and get some great insights on dispersal patterns and the like. It will make you feel good, but unless you validate your results against field data, you won’t know if you’ve learned enough to respond effectively during an actual event. Also, you need actual observational data to meaningfully calibrate any simulation involving potential human fatalities. There are over 100 NYC restaurants serving bean burritos, so it’s not like it’s the first time such experiments have been run.
proc0 5y ago
It seems like conspiracy theories are becoming occam's razor. Something is being hidden from all of this bioweapon stuff. I don't recall any terrorists having access to expensive labs that would allow them to develop dangerous bioweapons without them dying from it first.
perihelions 5y ago
Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray The journalist in OP chose not to report on it, but the mystery gas is probably one of the candidates summarized on pp. 3-5 of this 87 page PDF, which shares acronyms with OP ("Urban Threat Dispersion"), https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ea_utd_cbt_v5.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ea_utd_... The list includes perfluorinated gases (perfluorocarbons, SF6); several kinds of aerosolized microparticles with DNA sequence tracers; aerosols with amine dye or biological antibody tracers; and some proprietary fluorescent dye called "Visolite", "commonly used in HVAC tracing".
- Denatonium 5y ago
  Geez, over the course of 100 years, SF6 has a GWP of 22,800 and an atmospheric life of 3,200 years[1]. A lot of HFCs and PFCs aren't much better. This sounds like a way to win the battle and lose the war. [1] https://www.epa.gov/eps-partnership/sulfur-hexafluoride-sf6-basics https://www.epa.gov/eps-partnership/sulfur-hexafluoride-sf6-...

13 points by sahin 5y ago

Is this really the best way to study this? First of all you can do this only infrequently, you need special equipment to measure the gas at specific locations and you will fuel conspiracies about the gas and possibly cause panic if the gas is visible to those who are not informed. Instead you could spend the money to build an accurate computer model and simulate hundreds of possibilities, different wind directions, traffic conditions etc.

onecommentman 5y ago
You can spend lotsa money on pure simulations (only hundreds?) and get some great insights on dispersal patterns and the like. It will make you feel good, but unless you validate your results against field data, you won’t know if you’ve learned enough to respond effectively during an actual event. Also, you need actual observational data to meaningfully calibrate any simulation involving potential human fatalities. There are over 100 NYC restaurants serving bean burritos, so it’s not like it’s the first time such experiments have been run.

proc0 5y ago

It seems like conspiracy theories are becoming occam's razor. Something is being hidden from all of this bioweapon stuff. I don't recall any terrorists having access to expensive labs that would allow them to develop dangerous bioweapons without them dying from it first.

perihelions 5y ago

Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray The journalist in OP chose not to report on it, but the mystery gas is probably one of the candidates summarized on pp. 3-5 of this 87 page PDF, which shares acronyms with OP ("Urban Threat Dispersion"), https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ea_utd_cbt_v5.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ea_utd_... The list includes perfluorinated gases (perfluorocarbons, SF6); several kinds of aerosolized microparticles with DNA sequence tracers; aerosols with amine dye or biological antibody tracers; and some proprietary fluorescent dye called "Visolite", "commonly used in HVAC tracing".

Denatonium 5y ago
Geez, over the course of 100 years, SF6 has a GWP of 22,800 and an atmospheric life of 3,200 years[1]. A lot of HFCs and PFCs aren't much better. This sounds like a way to win the battle and lose the war. [1] https://www.epa.gov/eps-partnership/sulfur-hexafluoride-sf6-basics https://www.epa.gov/eps-partnership/sulfur-hexafluoride-sf6-...