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> PG&E announced that it plans to close the two Diablo Canyon reactors in 2024 and 2025, stating that because California's energy regulations give renewables pr
by NikolaeVarius 5y ago
> PG&E announced that it plans to close the two Diablo Canyon reactors in 2024 and 2025, stating that because California's energy regulations give renewables priority over nuclear, the plant would likely only run half-time, making it uneconomical.
> In 2020, experts at the California Independent System Operator (CAISO) warned that when the plant closes the state will reach a "critical inflection point", which will create a significant challenge to ensure reliability of the grid without resorting to more fossil fuel usage, and could jeopardize California's greenhouse gas reduction targets.
Good stuff, shooting yourself in the foot because ideology versus reality
- KorematsuFredt 5y agoFacts don't matter only feelings do - One of the California politicians. When people say X must be treated and utility and politicians must control it, I show them PG&E as a glorious example of California's corruption and overall incompetence.
- koheripbal 5y ago... because activism trumps intelligence.
- JaimeThompson 5y agoMuch the same is happening in Texas but in the opposite direction. [1] "“I’m very disappointed,” Nichols said, taking issue with a provision in the new law that lets gas companies easily skirt weatherization requirements as long as they don’t declare themselves to be “critical infrastructure” with the state." [1] https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/Editorial-Why-the-shock-GOP-knew-perfectly-well-16503442.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/...
- brink 5y ago> ideology versus reality It works until it doesn't. I don't think it's common knowledge today that ideology is a luxury, and doesn't put gas in the tank of a functioning society, now that we've generally taken a functioning society for granted.
- PicassoCTs 5y agoDisasters created by ideology are the normal pathway to vaccinate the general population against memetic viruses. Were education may fail, a winter with rolling black-outs, may not.
- almost_usual 5y agoSometimes you need a forcing function.
- colechristensen 5y agoThere’s probably a theory in there that any technological or social system is doomed to have periodic major preventable failures as a function of human life span and attention. If people aren’t reminded of failure they will inevitably neglect the system until it happens. There’s a follow up whereby it might be optimal to design systems explicitly to allow somewhat frequent non catastrophic failures to keep people on their toes. Attempts at “perfect” safety seeming to only build up to less frequent but bigger disasters.
- TrispusAttucks 5y agoThe theory you may be looking for is [1] Chesterton's Fence [1] https://thereaderwiki.com/en/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence https://thereaderwiki.com/en/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence
- michael1999 5y agoCliodynamics is this, but for the miseries of industrial war.
- hanniabu 5y agoThe tradeoff is one failure for another
- avidphantasm 5y agoYeah, this seems really stupid. I can see an argument for prioritizing renewables for new capacity (and can also see the argument for not), buy if the nuclear plants are already built, why de-prioritize dispatching their power now?
- dv_dt 5y agoBecause Diablo canyon is also built on an earthquake fault.
- CameronNemo 5y agoDiablo Canyon is designed to withstand an earthquake of shaking amplitude ten times larger than that which the Shoreline fault is capable of triggering, based on an analysis by plant owner Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_earthquake_vulnerability https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_earthquake_vul...
- petschge 5y agoPlants owners will always say that they analyzed their own plant being safe...
- heisenbit 5y agoAnd that is before they start storing spent fuels on site.
- CameronNemo 5y agoNRC's estimate of the risk each year of an earthquake intense enough to cause core damage to the reactor at Diablo Canyon was 1 in 23,810 according to an NRC study published in August 2010.
- Beldin 5y agoIndeed. This sort of thing should be called "toilet ducking", in recognition of the (Dutch) brand whose ads poked fun at this very idea in the 90s. "Therefore, we of Toilet Duck recommend ... Toilet Duck!" ("Toilet duck" is a transliteration of their name.) Moreover, it sounds suitably silly to be used for such silly nonsense.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoIf only reality would listen to reason.
- CalChris 5y agoReason working its will on reality is the definition of progress.
- varelse 5y agoSolar has become dramatically cheaper in the past decade but the policymakers don't seem capable of realizing it's still not enough for America's energy needs on its own, doubly so drought-ridden California.
- petschge 5y agoHow are droughts creating problems for solar?
- varelse 5y agoThey aren't, they're creating weird issues with the power grid due to lack of investment there for which Californians are now on the hook to address through higher utility bills. https://www.pge.com/en_US/about-pge/company-information/regulation/general-rate-case/grc.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/about-pge/company-information/regu...
- anm89 5y agoThis could almost be a good thing. If they shut this plant down and immediately start experiencing grid reliability issues it could get some press coverage and be a wakeup call
- dhritzkiv 5y agoNegative press coverage doesn't seem to phase PG&E
- rytcio 5y agoor the california government
- vinay427 5y agoThis entire recall election for the governor seemed to stem from press coverage that sparked a limited movement. Considering the result seemed too close for comfort throughout much of the campaign process, I wouldn’t exactly consider the government immune to negative press.
- zbrozek 5y agoMaybe not, but PG&E sure seems to be immune. It's not a great look when you both have very high electricity prices [0] and you're also frequently starting fires and killing people. But good news, shareholders, it turns out that actually being convicted of crimes [1] as a corporation is no big deal, so much so that they're pleading guilty to manslaughter ten years later [2]. And even better, there's regulatory capture that makes it extremely hard for municipalities to stand up their own services to provide safer and cheaper power to residents [3]. [0] 0.26/KWh if you're a saint and use almost nothing to $0.41/KWh if you use a normal-or-more amount of electricity. See https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED... [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/pge-ordered-develop-compliance-and-ethics-program-part-its-sentence-engaging-criminal https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/pge-ordered-develop-com... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pg-e-pleads-guilty-manslaughter-paradise-california-fire-84-counts/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pg-e-pleads-guilty-manslaughter... [3] https://www.desertsun.com/story/tech/science/energy/2018/10/10/california-deciding-how-much-you-have-pay-ditch-sce-pge-sdge/1582312002/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/tech/science/energy/2018/10/...
- abecedarius 5y ago> because California's energy regulations give renewables priority over nuclear Hack to solve this: classify nuclear as renewable?
- SllX 5y agoOr just repeal a bad law instead of trying to fill the law books with hacks.
- abecedarius 5y agoIt's effectively renewable because (1) there's essentially no pollution and (2) with no prospect of new plants, mining of fuel is not going to add up to much impact. I agree with your viewpoint in general.
- SllX 5y agoNah I don’t think you can take linguistic shortcuts on this. As much as I’m a proponent of nuclear power, I’m a bigger proponent of repealing bad laws rather than accommodating them with poorly thought out extensions and calling nuclear something it’s not doesn’t sit well with me when it stands fine on its own merits. I think we’re agreeing directionally at least.
- abecedarius 5y agoYeah, that's fair. Admittedly I posted that comment because it amused me.
- abecedarius 5y agoThis is happening in Europe! "Finland has joined France, Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic in lobbying the European Union to categorize nuclear power as sustainable." https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/1447963506737704966 https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/14479635067377049...
- iscrewyou 5y agoThis has been in the works since 2016. https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/End-of-an-atomic-era-PG-E-to-close-Diablo-Canyon-8314258.php https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/End-of-an-atomic-era...
- ren_engineer 5y agonuclear isn't profitable for lobbyist because of the regulations around it, can't outsource production of panels to China and reap massive profit margins from subsidies. Same thing for wind turbines. I know executives with power companies who built out massive wind farms only because of the subsidies, those wind mills have about a 20 year life time and can't be recycled or reused
- pkaye 5y agoShould we get rid of subsidies for oil production too?
- iab 5y agoYes, this the motto on our state flag I believe