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I am going to make a claim as someone who works in both the crossroad of devwork and design that there is not one piece of software that caters truly for the ar

by prox 5y ago

I am going to make a claim as someone who works in both the crossroad of devwork and design that there is not one piece of software that caters truly for the artist. Every piece of software for artists / designers is not intuitive. It’s sliders, knobs, modals and panels. Programmers making design software is Not A Good Idea. The way forward is something like ProCreate, so just the software and the pen, and maybe more auxiliary devices (a color palet for instance) to become more analog again.

pjc50 5y ago
It's been a long time since the unique and slightly bizarre Kai's Power Tools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai%27s_Power_Tools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai%27s_Power_Tools
- prox 5y ago
  Yeah, and in many ways, we haven’t seen many more trials like that.
jimmaswell 5y ago
What do you want, an AI that reads your mind and generates the exact art you want? Barring that, a perfectly intuitive tool is impossible past a certain point of complexity. If you want something in front of something else you're going to have to learn what a layer is. If you want something at just the right transparency you're going to have to adjust the transparency. Maybe some kind of virtual art studio in VR would be helpful for people who want a more physically intuitive experience with some extras like undo and saving copies, but even then you're still going to have to learn a thing or two about the tool to use it, like any tool.
ksec 5y ago
>The way forward is something like ProCreate You mean [1] ? I dont disagree with your point but I dont understand how pro create is any different to any other design software on iPad. [1] https://procreate.art https://procreate.art
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  ProCreate works very well with the Apple Pencil. The Apple Pencil, and the iPad Pro (esp. the latest of each), is awesome. They did a really good job on that. I don't use ProCreate, but that's mostly because I'm not really that kind of graphic designer. I remember looking at "paintbox" tools for video effects, in the 1970s. We've come a long, long way, and real artists have some really nice tools at their disposal.
  - ksec 5y ago
    So it is Apple Pencil that is making the difference, Not Pro Create? Because parent mention Apps were the problem? Or is it more like Apps designed for Apple Pencil will be the future? Not mouse and keyboard?
    - prox 5y ago
      It’s the intuitive way you can draw without endlessly dialing knobs, tweak panels and so on. It’s fluent, which I feel, a lot of apps lack. I love to see more UI / UX creativity.
      - theaussiestew 5y ago
        I’m very curious about what you mean specifically around UI/UX creativity. I do agree with you though, which is why I’ve been trying to build an app that has more “creative” and non traditional UX elements. I also feel that an ‘Ink-Board’ should replace the trackpad as we know it. Basically an E-Ink tablet that serves as a stylus, pointer and control input. So that we’re not limited to discrete inputs (as opposed to analogue inputs).
        prox 5y ago
        Sorry for a late feedback as I do interest myself in this topic. If you look at Photoshop or Affinity, they all work the same way. The present an icon to manipulate the image, they have the same panels. And you can ofcourse create beautiful works of art with it. But in terms of usage, it’s all the same. Now if you are lucky you got yourself a Cintiq or maybe Surface Studio edition, giving you a hands on experience. When it comes interfacing though, I feel we haven’t really explored much. Someone here mentioned KAI power tools, which was quite intuitive and fun to use. I just wish for more types of computing/interfacing and use of screen and see some creativity in this field. An Ink-board does sounds interesting though!
megameter 5y ago
No advanced art process can avoid some amount of engineering, because the demand that is made is to measure and select with precision that which is to be edited. When we use a mark-making tool like a pen, all that's happening is that we select the area being pressed to be darkened. Technique with those tools takes years to develop, and their full use comes in tandem with additional tools like rulers, prospekt, and stencils. So when we add knobs and sliders and modes we are simply trying to describe those kinds of intents within a precise abstraction instead of a collection of simpler tools. It does go overboard in that nobody's going to adjust every knob presented.

by prox 5y ago

pjc50 5y ago

It's been a long time since the unique and slightly bizarre Kai's Power Tools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai%27s_Power_Tools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai%27s_Power_Tools

prox 5y ago
Yeah, and in many ways, we haven’t seen many more trials like that.

jimmaswell 5y ago

What do you want, an AI that reads your mind and generates the exact art you want? Barring that, a perfectly intuitive tool is impossible past a certain point of complexity. If you want something in front of something else you're going to have to learn what a layer is. If you want something at just the right transparency you're going to have to adjust the transparency. Maybe some kind of virtual art studio in VR would be helpful for people who want a more physically intuitive experience with some extras like undo and saving copies, but even then you're still going to have to learn a thing or two about the tool to use it, like any tool.

ksec 5y ago

>The way forward is something like ProCreate You mean [1] ? I dont disagree with your point but I dont understand how pro create is any different to any other design software on iPad. [1] https://procreate.art https://procreate.art

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
ProCreate works very well with the Apple Pencil. The Apple Pencil, and the iPad Pro (esp. the latest of each), is awesome. They did a really good job on that. I don't use ProCreate, but that's mostly because I'm not really that kind of graphic designer. I remember looking at "paintbox" tools for video effects, in the 1970s. We've come a long, long way, and real artists have some really nice tools at their disposal.
- ksec 5y ago
  So it is Apple Pencil that is making the difference, Not Pro Create? Because parent mention Apps were the problem? Or is it more like Apps designed for Apple Pencil will be the future? Not mouse and keyboard?
  - prox 5y ago
    It’s the intuitive way you can draw without endlessly dialing knobs, tweak panels and so on. It’s fluent, which I feel, a lot of apps lack. I love to see more UI / UX creativity.
    - theaussiestew 5y ago
      I’m very curious about what you mean specifically around UI/UX creativity. I do agree with you though, which is why I’ve been trying to build an app that has more “creative” and non traditional UX elements. I also feel that an ‘Ink-Board’ should replace the trackpad as we know it. Basically an E-Ink tablet that serves as a stylus, pointer and control input. So that we’re not limited to discrete inputs (as opposed to analogue inputs).
      - prox 5y ago
        Sorry for a late feedback as I do interest myself in this topic. If you look at Photoshop or Affinity, they all work the same way. The present an icon to manipulate the image, they have the same panels. And you can ofcourse create beautiful works of art with it. But in terms of usage, it’s all the same. Now if you are lucky you got yourself a Cintiq or maybe Surface Studio edition, giving you a hands on experience. When it comes interfacing though, I feel we haven’t really explored much. Someone here mentioned KAI power tools, which was quite intuitive and fun to use. I just wish for more types of computing/interfacing and use of screen and see some creativity in this field. An Ink-board does sounds interesting though!

megameter 5y ago

No advanced art process can avoid some amount of engineering, because the demand that is made is to measure and select with precision that which is to be edited. When we use a mark-making tool like a pen, all that's happening is that we select the area being pressed to be darkened. Technique with those tools takes years to develop, and their full use comes in tandem with additional tools like rulers, prospekt, and stencils. So when we add knobs and sliders and modes we are simply trying to describe those kinds of intents within a precise abstraction instead of a collection of simpler tools. It does go overboard in that nobody's going to adjust every knob presented.