6 ms·

Mao Quotes on the Professional Managerial Class

20 points by qualudeheart 5y ago

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Much of what Mao did was murderously stupid - because he was a superb exemplar of the flaws he is describing here. Not a good man to follow if you want to get useful things done.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  So he was a hypocrite, but that is an insult we reserve for people who we can't say are wrong.
- swayvil 5y ago
  If you have Truth on your side, and the power to impose your will, it only makes sense to do so. Some may disagree, but they're wrong. Some may suffer, but it's for Truth, so it's ok I think that this is the vastly popular attitude. And that's a tragic fact.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
chaganated 5y ago
Mao is no James Burnham, and there's somewhere between 15M to 55M corpses to prove it.
yostrovs 5y ago
Would Hitler's thoughts on bureaucracy make it to HN? Mao killed more people.
- rapind 5y ago
  > Would Hitler's thoughts on bureaucracy make it to HN? Maybe? Would reading Hitler's thoughts on bureaucracy magically turn me into a fascist? Seems like interesting history. Would Genghis Khan's thoughts on strategy make it to HN? I would argue "Tweets" shouldn't make it to HN though to be honest, but whatever, if that's what people want to discuss...
  - notriddle 5y ago
    You’re using the word “magically,” so obviously you think the answer’s “no.” But, then, what does turn people into fascists if not fascist rhetoric?
    - rapind 5y ago
      Whatever it is, I’m definitely not interested in “dictating” what other people read or share. Instead you can argue against it (like another post pointing out Mao’s hypocrisy) or promote alternatives. I’m willing to risk a few converted fascists.
jzellis 5y ago
[flagged]
- Jensson 5y ago
  Its just a list saying that managers are dumb, lazy, egoistic and evil. It contains about as much wisdom as all the lists saying that the working class is dumb, lazy, egoistic and evil.
burlesona 5y ago
Taking management lessons from Mao? It’s important to keep in mind his track record. Just one example, the time he ordered all the sparrows in China killed[1] which greatly contributed to a famine that killed around 30 million people[2]. 1. https://gizmodo.com/china-s-worst-self-inflicted-environmental-disaster-th-5927112 https://gizmodo.com/china-s-worst-self-inflicted-environment... 2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
- foxhop 5y ago
  Yes. This happened, profoundly dumb. The leadership which used propaganda to the masses to destroy nature in this way, the very nature which we are intimately part of and no technology can replace.
  - swayvil 5y ago
    On the contrary. Farmers have killed pests for thousands of years, with good results. This is merely a natural elaboration of that. It's a reasonable plan. Which goes to show you that even what "makes sense" can be dumb. Which is a strong argument for personal autonomy and against totalitarian measures. To avoid putting all of your eggs in one basket and such.
    - foxhop 5y ago
      Total War on nature in the name of short term increase in ANNUAL production is the definition of insanity. Our subsistence comes from nature not technology.
  - qualudeheart 5y ago
    I laud Mao`s attempts, as hard as they may have failed. War and agriculture are the foundations of all successful states. Once both have been rectified higher forms of progress are made possible and industry can be established.
    - foxhop 5y ago
Jensson 5y ago
This looks scarily similar to modern blog spam. Funny how little the internet really changed us, we just share more information but the basis is the same.
fallingknife 5y ago
Wow! Some of those are dead on describing the upper middle class in modern American society. You can see from the comments here how people can't stand the look in the mirror.
- batch12 5y ago
  Which comments? The only comments here either agree, find nothing new (possibly due to the age of this knowledge), or argue that Mao should be no role model. Seems like you are looking to start an argument based on something that isn't happening.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    > 50% of the top level comments at this time are ad hominems against Mao.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      These aren't ad hominem fallacies, attacking the merit of authority figures is warranted when they are used as authority figures.
      - drewcoo 5y ago
        Ad hominem means against the person, so even if this weren't an example of a fallacy it would be an ad hominem attack. As has been pointed out, people are taking issue with Mao, the person, instead of dealing with his accusations. And that is an example of an ad hominem fallacy. As to merit, fallacies have no bearing on actual truth value, only on soundness of argument. I think that's what you were getting at. For whatever it's worth, I'm no Mao fan.
GaryTang 5y ago
May the tens of millions who died from the biggest mass murderer in history, RIP. And let there memory always serve as a reminder of what the path of socialism looks like. https://fee.org/articles/who-was-the-biggest-mass-murderer-in-history/ https://fee.org/articles/who-was-the-biggest-mass-murderer-i...
- whydoibother 5y ago
  They forgot to list all the deaths from colonialism. And forced famines by people like Churchill. And the countless deaths from destabilizing countries in the global south, done by the US empire. Weird how they never talk about all the people lifted up out of poverty by people like Mao and Stalin. Wonder why that is. Great source, clearly unbiased.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
There's plenty of good socialist critique of bureaucracy and the managerial class done by thinkers who weren't mass murderers and dictators. Mao is one of the last places I would look for a critique of Stalinist bureaucracy. Let's just start with, say, Milovan Djilas, Leon Trotsky, Hal Draper, Raya Dunayevskaya, Tony Cliff, Ernest Mandel, I could go on...

20 points by qualudeheart 5y ago

Much of what Mao did was murderously stupid - because he was a superb exemplar of the flaws he is describing here. Not a good man to follow if you want to get useful things done.

fallingknife 5y ago
So he was a hypocrite, but that is an insult we reserve for people who we can't say are wrong.
swayvil 5y ago
If you have Truth on your side, and the power to impose your will, it only makes sense to do so. Some may disagree, but they're wrong. Some may suffer, but it's for Truth, so it's ok I think that this is the vastly popular attitude. And that's a tragic fact.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

chaganated 5y ago

Mao is no James Burnham, and there's somewhere between 15M to 55M corpses to prove it.

yostrovs 5y ago

Would Hitler's thoughts on bureaucracy make it to HN? Mao killed more people.

rapind 5y ago
> Would Hitler's thoughts on bureaucracy make it to HN? Maybe? Would reading Hitler's thoughts on bureaucracy magically turn me into a fascist? Seems like interesting history. Would Genghis Khan's thoughts on strategy make it to HN? I would argue "Tweets" shouldn't make it to HN though to be honest, but whatever, if that's what people want to discuss...
- notriddle 5y ago
  You’re using the word “magically,” so obviously you think the answer’s “no.” But, then, what does turn people into fascists if not fascist rhetoric?
  - rapind 5y ago
    Whatever it is, I’m definitely not interested in “dictating” what other people read or share. Instead you can argue against it (like another post pointing out Mao’s hypocrisy) or promote alternatives. I’m willing to risk a few converted fascists.

jzellis 5y ago

[flagged]

Jensson 5y ago
Its just a list saying that managers are dumb, lazy, egoistic and evil. It contains about as much wisdom as all the lists saying that the working class is dumb, lazy, egoistic and evil.

burlesona 5y ago

Taking management lessons from Mao? It’s important to keep in mind his track record. Just one example, the time he ordered all the sparrows in China killed[1] which greatly contributed to a famine that killed around 30 million people[2]. 1. https://gizmodo.com/china-s-worst-self-inflicted-environmental-disaster-th-5927112 https://gizmodo.com/china-s-worst-self-inflicted-environment... 2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

foxhop 5y ago
Yes. This happened, profoundly dumb. The leadership which used propaganda to the masses to destroy nature in this way, the very nature which we are intimately part of and no technology can replace.
- swayvil 5y ago
  On the contrary. Farmers have killed pests for thousands of years, with good results. This is merely a natural elaboration of that. It's a reasonable plan. Which goes to show you that even what "makes sense" can be dumb. Which is a strong argument for personal autonomy and against totalitarian measures. To avoid putting all of your eggs in one basket and such.
  - foxhop 5y ago
    Total War on nature in the name of short term increase in ANNUAL production is the definition of insanity. Our subsistence comes from nature not technology.
- qualudeheart 5y ago
  I laud Mao`s attempts, as hard as they may have failed. War and agriculture are the foundations of all successful states. Once both have been rectified higher forms of progress are made possible and industry can be established.
  - foxhop 5y ago

Jensson 5y ago

This looks scarily similar to modern blog spam. Funny how little the internet really changed us, we just share more information but the basis is the same.

fallingknife 5y ago

Wow! Some of those are dead on describing the upper middle class in modern American society. You can see from the comments here how people can't stand the look in the mirror.

batch12 5y ago
Which comments? The only comments here either agree, find nothing new (possibly due to the age of this knowledge), or argue that Mao should be no role model. Seems like you are looking to start an argument based on something that isn't happening.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  > 50% of the top level comments at this time are ad hominems against Mao.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    These aren't ad hominem fallacies, attacking the merit of authority figures is warranted when they are used as authority figures.
    - drewcoo 5y ago
      Ad hominem means against the person, so even if this weren't an example of a fallacy it would be an ad hominem attack. As has been pointed out, people are taking issue with Mao, the person, instead of dealing with his accusations. And that is an example of an ad hominem fallacy. As to merit, fallacies have no bearing on actual truth value, only on soundness of argument. I think that's what you were getting at. For whatever it's worth, I'm no Mao fan.

GaryTang 5y ago

May the tens of millions who died from the biggest mass murderer in history, RIP. And let there memory always serve as a reminder of what the path of socialism looks like. https://fee.org/articles/who-was-the-biggest-mass-murderer-in-history/ https://fee.org/articles/who-was-the-biggest-mass-murderer-i...

whydoibother 5y ago
They forgot to list all the deaths from colonialism. And forced famines by people like Churchill. And the countless deaths from destabilizing countries in the global south, done by the US empire. Weird how they never talk about all the people lifted up out of poverty by people like Mao and Stalin. Wonder why that is. Great source, clearly unbiased.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

There's plenty of good socialist critique of bureaucracy and the managerial class done by thinkers who weren't mass murderers and dictators. Mao is one of the last places I would look for a critique of Stalinist bureaucracy. Let's just start with, say, Milovan Djilas, Leon Trotsky, Hal Draper, Raya Dunayevskaya, Tony Cliff, Ernest Mandel, I could go on...