4 ms·

This article is simple fearmongering. Yes, "ghost guns", or homemade firearms are growing in popularity, and of course LAPD is seizing them: they're illegal in

This article is simple fearmongering. Yes, "ghost guns", or homemade firearms are growing in popularity, and of course LAPD is seizing them: they're illegal in CA. If you know a weed dealer in the US, I promise it's easier to get a gun through them than by printing one. The reality is that this is here to stay. The FGC-9 is not a joke, it's a powerful weapon that's impossible to effectively regulate. Let that frame the discussion. You can't get rid of this, how do you work with it?

buro9 5y ago
Make selling bullets illegal or tax bullets in some extreme way
- the-dude 5y ago
  Chris Rock's $5000 bullet control : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Uqq9Bz-WU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Uqq9Bz-WU I would shoot you if I could afford it
- chrisco255 5y ago
  That proposal itself is illegal in the U.S. But meanwhile making bullets has long been a trivial affair. And you can totally reuse spent cartridges. It's a brass jacket with a lead tip filled with gunpowder (which can also be homemade). It's 19th century technology.
  - Blackthorn 5y ago
    Acceptable primers are not easy to manufacture at home.
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      A dude I know is working really really hard on piezoelectric ignition. So far he's had great results.
      - CSSer 5y ago
        Wait, like the guitar tuners? How does that even work?
        emteycz 5y ago
        Lighters with button are piezoelectric as well, I imagine it's similar.
        blackfawn 5y ago
        You are probably thinking of piezoelectric pickups. Same principle but think of grill/gas ignitors: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezo_ignition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezo_ignition
- sushsjsuauahab 5y ago
  This is becoming de facto true, as they are now very expensive and scarce.
- rpmisms 5y ago
  https://ctrlpew.com/butwhataboutammo-volume-2-bullets-by-cathode/ https://ctrlpew.com/butwhataboutammo-volume-2-bullets-by-cat... They're way ahead of you on that one.
- refurb 5y ago
  Smart! We should try that with harmful drugs too - just make them illegal.
Uehreka 5y ago
> You can’t get rid of this, how do you work with it? This reminds me a lot of an attitude among anti-DRM people that I’ve been trying to get folks to reconsider: the “DRM is bad _and also_ useless so why bother!” stance. The RIAA and MPAA have largely gotten their way with stuff like EME and HDCP. It’s become pretty tough to get 4K pirated versions of any but the most popular movies, and even then it’s pretty tough sometimes. While we were chuckling about that 12 digit DVD region lock code meme they were cooking up invasions of privacy that we just didn’t think they’d have the balls or the competencies to pull off. I’m not too into guns myself, but if you are, take heed from what happened to piracy. These things are not inevitably going to propagate. If you find yourself going “but in order to stop this, they’d have to do X”, stop yourself and consider the possibility that they might try.
- rpmisms 5y ago
  But piracy is a completely different issue. The source is controlled. With guns, it's literally random furries posting the latest Glock variation they designed. Sure, you can try to stop that, but you'll need to repeal the 1st amendment first. I'm very much into guns, co-host a pro-gun and Pro-AAPI gun ownership podcast, and personally know a lot of the people who are behind this movement. Many of them work for FAANG companies. They are aware of the challenges.
  - yunohn 5y ago
    > it's literally random furries posting the latest Glock variation they designed This statement sounds like “I’m a responsible pro gun person, but obviously the ones who aren’t are <insert random unliked group>!!”. That’s not much of an argument?
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm a responsible gun owner, and so are said furries. I'm just pointing out how widespread this is. Also yeah, furries seem to be getting into guns, and also seem to be acting with due safety, so I'm a fan of that happening.
semi-extrinsic 5y ago
> The reality is that this is here to stay. The FGC-9 is not a joke, it's a powerful weapon that's impossible to effectively regulate. Look, people in the 1940s were able to manufacture effective submachine guns while living in countries occupied by Nazi Germany. If it was doable with the tools available then and under the constant threat of armed soldiers legally ransacking your home or business without warning or warrant, it is doable today and in any conceivable future. There is nothing particularly novel about the threat scenarios caused by ghost guns. The only thing that is novel is the reduced cost of obtaining an illegal gun. Nobody's sitting around going "hmmm, I used to be a law abiding citizen, but now that I can 3D print an illegal gun instead of buying it, I will use it to go out and do crimes".
- CSSer 5y ago
  Probably more likely that they’re going, “Hmm, I’ve got that 3D printer gathering dust, and I don’t really ask too many questions. Maybe I could print some and make a little side money?”
  - semi-extrinsic 5y ago
    If your thinking is "yes, I'll make money by selling firearms (components) to people looking for a cheap untraceable gun", then you've basically decided you're comfortable with the risk of being found guilty of accessory to murder, in order to make a couple hundred bucks. Because of course "untraceable" doesn't mean the person you sold the gun to can't tell the police who made it, for instance in a plea bargain. That alone puts such business far, far outside the comfort zone of any normal 3D printing hobbyist.
- mping 5y ago
  Sure, people could write books before the printed press, but guess what? You lower the barrier to entry and stuff happens. If the LAPD declares it an epidemic, isn't that good reason to be at least slightly alarmed?
  - semi-extrinsic 5y ago

buro9 5y ago

Make selling bullets illegal or tax bullets in some extreme way

the-dude 5y ago
Chris Rock's $5000 bullet control : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Uqq9Bz-WU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Uqq9Bz-WU I would shoot you if I could afford it
chrisco255 5y ago
That proposal itself is illegal in the U.S. But meanwhile making bullets has long been a trivial affair. And you can totally reuse spent cartridges. It's a brass jacket with a lead tip filled with gunpowder (which can also be homemade). It's 19th century technology.
- Blackthorn 5y ago
  Acceptable primers are not easy to manufacture at home.
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    A dude I know is working really really hard on piezoelectric ignition. So far he's had great results.
    - CSSer 5y ago
      Wait, like the guitar tuners? How does that even work?
      - emteycz 5y ago
        Lighters with button are piezoelectric as well, I imagine it's similar.
      - blackfawn 5y ago
        You are probably thinking of piezoelectric pickups. Same principle but think of grill/gas ignitors: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezo_ignition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezo_ignition
sushsjsuauahab 5y ago
This is becoming de facto true, as they are now very expensive and scarce.
rpmisms 5y ago
https://ctrlpew.com/butwhataboutammo-volume-2-bullets-by-cathode/ https://ctrlpew.com/butwhataboutammo-volume-2-bullets-by-cat... They're way ahead of you on that one.
refurb 5y ago
Smart! We should try that with harmful drugs too - just make them illegal.

Uehreka 5y ago

> You can’t get rid of this, how do you work with it? This reminds me a lot of an attitude among anti-DRM people that I’ve been trying to get folks to reconsider: the “DRM is bad _and also_ useless so why bother!” stance. The RIAA and MPAA have largely gotten their way with stuff like EME and HDCP. It’s become pretty tough to get 4K pirated versions of any but the most popular movies, and even then it’s pretty tough sometimes. While we were chuckling about that 12 digit DVD region lock code meme they were cooking up invasions of privacy that we just didn’t think they’d have the balls or the competencies to pull off. I’m not too into guns myself, but if you are, take heed from what happened to piracy. These things are not inevitably going to propagate. If you find yourself going “but in order to stop this, they’d have to do X”, stop yourself and consider the possibility that they might try.

rpmisms 5y ago
But piracy is a completely different issue. The source is controlled. With guns, it's literally random furries posting the latest Glock variation they designed. Sure, you can try to stop that, but you'll need to repeal the 1st amendment first. I'm very much into guns, co-host a pro-gun and Pro-AAPI gun ownership podcast, and personally know a lot of the people who are behind this movement. Many of them work for FAANG companies. They are aware of the challenges.
- yunohn 5y ago
  > it's literally random furries posting the latest Glock variation they designed This statement sounds like “I’m a responsible pro gun person, but obviously the ones who aren’t are <insert random unliked group>!!”. That’s not much of an argument?
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm a responsible gun owner, and so are said furries. I'm just pointing out how widespread this is. Also yeah, furries seem to be getting into guns, and also seem to be acting with due safety, so I'm a fan of that happening.

semi-extrinsic 5y ago

> The reality is that this is here to stay. The FGC-9 is not a joke, it's a powerful weapon that's impossible to effectively regulate. Look, people in the 1940s were able to manufacture effective submachine guns while living in countries occupied by Nazi Germany. If it was doable with the tools available then and under the constant threat of armed soldiers legally ransacking your home or business without warning or warrant, it is doable today and in any conceivable future. There is nothing particularly novel about the threat scenarios caused by ghost guns. The only thing that is novel is the reduced cost of obtaining an illegal gun. Nobody's sitting around going "hmmm, I used to be a law abiding citizen, but now that I can 3D print an illegal gun instead of buying it, I will use it to go out and do crimes".

CSSer 5y ago
Probably more likely that they’re going, “Hmm, I’ve got that 3D printer gathering dust, and I don’t really ask too many questions. Maybe I could print some and make a little side money?”
- semi-extrinsic 5y ago
  If your thinking is "yes, I'll make money by selling firearms (components) to people looking for a cheap untraceable gun", then you've basically decided you're comfortable with the risk of being found guilty of accessory to murder, in order to make a couple hundred bucks. Because of course "untraceable" doesn't mean the person you sold the gun to can't tell the police who made it, for instance in a plea bargain. That alone puts such business far, far outside the comfort zone of any normal 3D printing hobbyist.
mping 5y ago
Sure, people could write books before the printed press, but guess what? You lower the barrier to entry and stuff happens. If the LAPD declares it an epidemic, isn't that good reason to be at least slightly alarmed?
- semi-extrinsic 5y ago