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I've done tough physical labor, and repetitive physical labor. They may wear out the body (or may invigorate it, depending on the load), but the mind is fresh e

I've done tough physical labor, and repetitive physical labor. They may wear out the body (or may invigorate it, depending on the load), but the mind is fresh even after 8+ hours, in my experience. And it feels good. After six hours of typey-typey in front of a screen I feel used up. Worthless. Dead. And that's a very good day—four is more typical for "how long can I do computer work before I just want to curl up and do nothing until I fall asleep?". I mean four hours of actually working, mind you, not screwing around, but still. I know for a fact I don't have a general work ethic problem that prevents me from going past 4-6 hours of computer work in a day—I have a "this particular shit—computer shit—sucks the life out of me like nothing else" problem. Always been that way, even when I was young. Work? I'll do it 'till I drop and feel good about it. Computer work? Uuuuugh, if I have to, I guess, but I'll hate it the whole time and feel like shit when I'm done, which, BTW, won't take long. But, anything I could do that wouldn't involve sitting in front of a computer much of the day would mean a 60+% pay cut, so... here I am.

Graffur 5y ago
Woah - that really sucks you're in a job that you hate. For your own health you should try something else that you don't hate.
fijiaarone 5y ago
Having done both -- there is as much problem solving in digging a ditch as in building a web application. And that's not denigrating programming, it's pointing out the reality that physical work requires mental effort too.
bcrosby95 5y ago
I've always had a somewhat weird work process. I probably spend a large amount of time just plain fucking around. But it's interspersed with exploring solutions to the problem. The fuckaround time is important. It lets me re-evaluate the problem with a clearer mind. Oftentimes this looks like I'm doing nothing for a day or two. Then by day 3 I just write everything that needs to be written in an hour or so.
sumnole 5y ago
I'll add that it's different when I'm coding and have full autonomy - I could practically go all day on personal projects. When I have to yield to hierarchy, maintain "agile" processes, and put up with other bs, it drains the work drive and gets tiring real quick. It's not just toll from hard mental labor but also from bad environments - which can exist in any industry.
chousuke 5y ago
I think when you begin to work on something, there's the phase where you are "stuck" and need understand the problem well enough to generate an acceptable initial idea to get started. To me, this is the draining part. However, once I have that understanding and can start exploring it, I can easily work for hours; it still requires mental energy and is still draining if I go overboard and don't stop in time, but it's not the soul-crushing kind that being stuck on a problem can be.
agumonkey 5y ago
Now there may be bio/psychological differences here, you (and I) seem to enjoy physical activity. Some might very well not.. I'd say it mostly depend on how the activity fits the person too (speed, effort, balance of type of efforts, sense of improving skills and not just mindless sweating). I like computing work, but it depends the context, if it's grinding through obscure and unreliable program semantics .. it's less fun. Unless you approach it mathematically (like scientific inquiry trying to discover how it may work), it's gonna be grinding. If you have simple building blocks and you can just unleash creativity.. then it's different, it's pleasurable. You're the only limit. Now even in that case, my best days is when I can alternate thinking hard, and sport. 20 min of jogging whenever I'm stuck on a feature branch helped me a lot getting stuck mentally and emotionally. And in a way, thinkers rarely sit down, they move around, it's vibrant.. it's not just grinding on a keyboard.

Graffur 5y ago

Woah - that really sucks you're in a job that you hate. For your own health you should try something else that you don't hate.

fijiaarone 5y ago

Having done both -- there is as much problem solving in digging a ditch as in building a web application. And that's not denigrating programming, it's pointing out the reality that physical work requires mental effort too.

bcrosby95 5y ago

I've always had a somewhat weird work process. I probably spend a large amount of time just plain fucking around. But it's interspersed with exploring solutions to the problem. The fuckaround time is important. It lets me re-evaluate the problem with a clearer mind. Oftentimes this looks like I'm doing nothing for a day or two. Then by day 3 I just write everything that needs to be written in an hour or so.

sumnole 5y ago

I'll add that it's different when I'm coding and have full autonomy - I could practically go all day on personal projects. When I have to yield to hierarchy, maintain "agile" processes, and put up with other bs, it drains the work drive and gets tiring real quick. It's not just toll from hard mental labor but also from bad environments - which can exist in any industry.

chousuke 5y ago

I think when you begin to work on something, there's the phase where you are "stuck" and need understand the problem well enough to generate an acceptable initial idea to get started. To me, this is the draining part. However, once I have that understanding and can start exploring it, I can easily work for hours; it still requires mental energy and is still draining if I go overboard and don't stop in time, but it's not the soul-crushing kind that being stuck on a problem can be.

agumonkey 5y ago

Now there may be bio/psychological differences here, you (and I) seem to enjoy physical activity. Some might very well not.. I'd say it mostly depend on how the activity fits the person too (speed, effort, balance of type of efforts, sense of improving skills and not just mindless sweating). I like computing work, but it depends the context, if it's grinding through obscure and unreliable program semantics .. it's less fun. Unless you approach it mathematically (like scientific inquiry trying to discover how it may work), it's gonna be grinding. If you have simple building blocks and you can just unleash creativity.. then it's different, it's pleasurable. You're the only limit. Now even in that case, my best days is when I can alternate thinking hard, and sport. 20 min of jogging whenever I'm stuck on a feature branch helped me a lot getting stuck mentally and emotionally. And in a way, thinkers rarely sit down, they move around, it's vibrant.. it's not just grinding on a keyboard.