4 ms·

I don’t disagree with this, but is mocking Trump supporters punching up or punching down? Honest question.

by bentlegen 5y ago

google234123 5y ago
Is a black man above or below a gay man in the oppression Olympics ranking?
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  A black woman came up with and wrote the foundational paper on intersectionality. Your comment is based on incorrect assumptions. A person can be both black and gay and experience a different kind of life based on that intersection. Black and native trans women suffer more by every metric than just about any other group of trans people.
  - why_is_it_good 5y ago
    > Black and native trans women suffer more Not by virtue of its blackness, indigenous or sex status, but only in relation to other people. If other people were to praise blackness, indigenousness and being non-man, it would not suffer, but thrive. Do not essentialize.
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      Yes, things would be different in a completely different culture other than the one we're discussing. That's why I weigh claims of oppression from Copts higher than I do from Baptists.
      - why_is_it_good 5y ago
        Now we discuss "claims of oppression by identities", yet before it was just "identities". Before identity was enough, when called out you switch to specific oppression. Almost as if you didn't care either way: before there were no individual experiences, now it's relevant. It really is a disease... My mistake was to engage.
krapp 5y ago
When they were in power it was punching up. Now I think it's just punching sideways or up depending on who's doing the punching, unless they're celebrities or Orangemanbad himself, in which case up. It's almost impossible to punch down on Trump supporters because they overwhelmingly represent a movement by which the privileged classes are attempting to maintain their privilege and power, and because they're constantly punching down with their mockery and disdain for marginalized classes and their issues.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  I wouldn't call Trump supporters privileged classes. Aren't they mostly blue collar workers? Not the political, cultural, financial elites and high earning immensely privileged urbanites?
  - krapp 5y ago
    The sources I've seen claim most of Trump's support comes from Americans making above median income, but privilege is intersectional, and the forms of privilege you listed don't overlap perfectly. In general, by privileged I meant taking the side of the status quo, IE (mostly) white, cisnormative (supporting exclusively heterosexual marriage and believing only two biologically-derived genders exist,) culturally Christian and conservative, which in the US is always the more politically and culturally defensible position. Of course, not all of these apply to all Trump supporters (his gain among Latino and Black voters in the last election being a counterexample) but I seriously doubt none apply to any.
mywittyname 5y ago
Depends on who is in the ring. But doing it to them as a group, I'd call that punching down in most cases. A lot of the late night comedians keep their jokes focused on the politician and his TV cronies. Any jokes targeting supporters have always been about a specific person because of something they've done or said, rather strictly based on their politics. Ex: Colbert's Seditionists Roundup. Or will say, "supports are of the former president claim..." then offer a direct quote, usually using a clip of the person in question making whatever statement is the butt of the joke.
simondotau 5y ago
Mockery isn’t inherently comedy, so the question of punch direction isn’t necessarily relevant. It’s also important to distinguish between mocking of Trump versus Trump supporters, as these are often conflated.

I don’t disagree with this, but is mocking Trump supporters punching up or punching down? Honest question.

google234123 5y ago

Is a black man above or below a gay man in the oppression Olympics ranking?

mkr-hn 5y ago
A black woman came up with and wrote the foundational paper on intersectionality. Your comment is based on incorrect assumptions. A person can be both black and gay and experience a different kind of life based on that intersection. Black and native trans women suffer more by every metric than just about any other group of trans people.
- why_is_it_good 5y ago
  > Black and native trans women suffer more Not by virtue of its blackness, indigenous or sex status, but only in relation to other people. If other people were to praise blackness, indigenousness and being non-man, it would not suffer, but thrive. Do not essentialize.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    Yes, things would be different in a completely different culture other than the one we're discussing. That's why I weigh claims of oppression from Copts higher than I do from Baptists.
    - why_is_it_good 5y ago
      Now we discuss "claims of oppression by identities", yet before it was just "identities". Before identity was enough, when called out you switch to specific oppression. Almost as if you didn't care either way: before there were no individual experiences, now it's relevant. It really is a disease... My mistake was to engage.

krapp 5y ago

When they were in power it was punching up. Now I think it's just punching sideways or up depending on who's doing the punching, unless they're celebrities or Orangemanbad himself, in which case up. It's almost impossible to punch down on Trump supporters because they overwhelmingly represent a movement by which the privileged classes are attempting to maintain their privilege and power, and because they're constantly punching down with their mockery and disdain for marginalized classes and their issues.

Ekaros 5y ago
I wouldn't call Trump supporters privileged classes. Aren't they mostly blue collar workers? Not the political, cultural, financial elites and high earning immensely privileged urbanites?
- krapp 5y ago
  The sources I've seen claim most of Trump's support comes from Americans making above median income, but privilege is intersectional, and the forms of privilege you listed don't overlap perfectly. In general, by privileged I meant taking the side of the status quo, IE (mostly) white, cisnormative (supporting exclusively heterosexual marriage and believing only two biologically-derived genders exist,) culturally Christian and conservative, which in the US is always the more politically and culturally defensible position. Of course, not all of these apply to all Trump supporters (his gain among Latino and Black voters in the last election being a counterexample) but I seriously doubt none apply to any.

mywittyname 5y ago

Depends on who is in the ring. But doing it to them as a group, I'd call that punching down in most cases. A lot of the late night comedians keep their jokes focused on the politician and his TV cronies. Any jokes targeting supporters have always been about a specific person because of something they've done or said, rather strictly based on their politics. Ex: Colbert's Seditionists Roundup. Or will say, "supports are of the former president claim..." then offer a direct quote, usually using a clip of the person in question making whatever statement is the butt of the joke.

simondotau 5y ago

Mockery isn’t inherently comedy, so the question of punch direction isn’t necessarily relevant. It’s also important to distinguish between mocking of Trump versus Trump supporters, as these are often conflated.