4 ms·

I don't understand why some people think it's okay to offend some groups and not others. Religious people may be deeply and sincerely offended by bad language,

I don't understand why some people think it's okay to offend some groups and not others. Religious people may be deeply and sincerely offended by bad language, jokes about promiscuity, or jokes about religion. Should comedians be banned from discussing those topics because they might offend the religious? Trump supporters might be offended by jokes about Trump, Biden supporters, Biden. Are those beyond the pale? It seems to me like some people have decided that the various 2SLGBTQQIA+ folks must not ever be offended but it's perfectly fine to offend some other groups. That doesn't make sense to me. If causing offense is wrong it should be equally wrong to offend anyone. Or, if it's okay to be offensive then it should be okay to offend anyone.

j_walter 5y ago
In this case the irony lies in one of Chappelle's jokes from his special...murder a man and no one cares (Jaylin Craig), but have a joke that offends a gay person and you will be a target for cancellation.
matthewmcg 5y ago
I understand the sentiment, but I think additional sensitivity may be merited where the group being offended is disadvantaged or subject to persecution. To put it another way, it's been said that comedians should punch "up" (i.e. make fun of those in power) and not punch "down."
- why_is_it_good 5y ago
  To praise weakness and call it merit.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  A good angle I read (but can't cite, unfortunately) is that some comedians punch up until the only people left to punch are the ones paying their salary, so they punch down at whoever it's still socially acceptable to make fun of. And then they keep doing it until it's no longer acceptable and start making their critics the whole focus of their routine. We used to call comedians who attacked critics hacks. Now they get Netflix specials.
- ReptileMan 5y ago
  Nobody presecutes them in the west. From what I see what happens to people that have the audacity to not cave to their demands completely and immediately that are victims of persecution. Governments, NGO, academia, media and big corporations are outwokking each other on the issue. I prefer dave to jessica yaniv...
  - Omnitaus 5y ago
    I could not get married in the US until less than a decade ago. I can legally be fired in roughly half of the member states of our union based on my identity. I can be legally denied healthcare treatment. This isn't even getting into discrimination with random individuals, which can and does happen in the west. Unfortunately "we don't stone our queers" is not something you get a golden sticker for. I get it's very en vogue to say marginalized communities secretly control society (Jewish marxist globalists etc) but don't you think we'd have secured equal treatment under the law first? If society is suddenly caving to any and all of my capricious whims I certainly didn't get the memo
    - ReptileMan 5y ago
      You have the same rights as every biological man or woman that was born in us (depending on your sex). You already have equal treatment. You want to extend, change and bend the law because the outcomes with current system doesn't suit you
    - bigwavedave 5y ago
      > I can legally be fired in roughly half of the member states of our union based on my identity. What? Where? And how? "At will" is one thing, but being fired purely because of how you identify? What? > I can be legally denied healthcare treatment. Wait, what? Are you talking about about all healthcare, specific procedures, or what? As far as I know, an ER can't refuse to provide healthcare treatment so you must be referring to specific things and not the general umbrella of "healthcare". Legitimate, sincere questions- I honestly don't know anything about anything.
      - 5y ago
InitialLastName 5y ago
As a general rule, punching up is more acceptable (and funnier!) than punching down. Making fun of the groups that are traditionally dominant in our society (certain religions, political leaders etc) is more compelling comedy than mocking those that have been traditionally victimized and oppressed.
- bentlegen 5y ago
  I don’t disagree with this, but is mocking Trump supporters punching up or punching down? Honest question.
  - google234123 5y ago
    Is a black man above or below a gay man in the oppression Olympics ranking?
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      A black woman came up with and wrote the foundational paper on intersectionality. Your comment is based on incorrect assumptions. A person can be both black and gay and experience a different kind of life based on that intersection. Black and native trans women suffer more by every metric than just about any other group of trans people.
      - why_is_it_good 5y ago
        > Black and native trans women suffer more Not by virtue of its blackness, indigenous or sex status, but only in relation to other people. If other people were to praise blackness, indigenousness and being non-man, it would not suffer, but thrive. Do not essentialize.
        mkr-hn 5y ago
        Yes, things would be different in a completely different culture other than the one we're discussing. That's why I weigh claims of oppression from Copts higher than I do from Baptists.
jayd16 5y ago
I agree with the sentiment but you're conflating what someone believes with who they are, ie, something someone can change vs something they can't. I don't really think anything should be off limits and off color jokes are an important art form to feel out emotions but I also think there's a clear difference in your examples.
- simondotau 5y ago
  Many jokes about people are grounded in aspects of a person which they can’t change. And even things they can in theory—can they really? Being obese isn’t just a choice. And of course nobody can change the past. Making jokes about aspects of transgenderism should be seen as a sign of cultural acceptance, not rejection.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  I don't think there's a difference. Most people are the religion they are born into. There's no choice about that. Similarly, you have no choice about the religion or political alignment of your family.
travisporter 5y ago
The assumption you're making is all groups are formed on an equal premise. [People who see psychics] and [korean women] are both groups
SkeuomorphicBee 5y ago
It is not about "offend" some group, it is about deny their humanity. All persecution that ever happened in history always started with campaigns of dehumanisation, so now weary groups fight tooth and nail against all kinds of dehumanising rethoric. The problem is that the line between edgy humour and dehumanising propaganda is fuzzy at times.

j_walter 5y ago

In this case the irony lies in one of Chappelle's jokes from his special...murder a man and no one cares (Jaylin Craig), but have a joke that offends a gay person and you will be a target for cancellation.

matthewmcg 5y ago

I understand the sentiment, but I think additional sensitivity may be merited where the group being offended is disadvantaged or subject to persecution. To put it another way, it's been said that comedians should punch "up" (i.e. make fun of those in power) and not punch "down."

why_is_it_good 5y ago
To praise weakness and call it merit.
mkr-hn 5y ago
A good angle I read (but can't cite, unfortunately) is that some comedians punch up until the only people left to punch are the ones paying their salary, so they punch down at whoever it's still socially acceptable to make fun of. And then they keep doing it until it's no longer acceptable and start making their critics the whole focus of their routine. We used to call comedians who attacked critics hacks. Now they get Netflix specials.
ReptileMan 5y ago
Nobody presecutes them in the west. From what I see what happens to people that have the audacity to not cave to their demands completely and immediately that are victims of persecution. Governments, NGO, academia, media and big corporations are outwokking each other on the issue. I prefer dave to jessica yaniv...
- Omnitaus 5y ago
  I could not get married in the US until less than a decade ago. I can legally be fired in roughly half of the member states of our union based on my identity. I can be legally denied healthcare treatment. This isn't even getting into discrimination with random individuals, which can and does happen in the west. Unfortunately "we don't stone our queers" is not something you get a golden sticker for. I get it's very en vogue to say marginalized communities secretly control society (Jewish marxist globalists etc) but don't you think we'd have secured equal treatment under the law first? If society is suddenly caving to any and all of my capricious whims I certainly didn't get the memo
  - ReptileMan 5y ago
    You have the same rights as every biological man or woman that was born in us (depending on your sex). You already have equal treatment. You want to extend, change and bend the law because the outcomes with current system doesn't suit you
  - bigwavedave 5y ago
    > I can legally be fired in roughly half of the member states of our union based on my identity. What? Where? And how? "At will" is one thing, but being fired purely because of how you identify? What? > I can be legally denied healthcare treatment. Wait, what? Are you talking about about all healthcare, specific procedures, or what? As far as I know, an ER can't refuse to provide healthcare treatment so you must be referring to specific things and not the general umbrella of "healthcare". Legitimate, sincere questions- I honestly don't know anything about anything.
    - 5y ago

InitialLastName 5y ago

As a general rule, punching up is more acceptable (and funnier!) than punching down. Making fun of the groups that are traditionally dominant in our society (certain religions, political leaders etc) is more compelling comedy than mocking those that have been traditionally victimized and oppressed.

bentlegen 5y ago
I don’t disagree with this, but is mocking Trump supporters punching up or punching down? Honest question.
- google234123 5y ago
  Is a black man above or below a gay man in the oppression Olympics ranking?
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    A black woman came up with and wrote the foundational paper on intersectionality. Your comment is based on incorrect assumptions. A person can be both black and gay and experience a different kind of life based on that intersection. Black and native trans women suffer more by every metric than just about any other group of trans people.
    - why_is_it_good 5y ago
      > Black and native trans women suffer more Not by virtue of its blackness, indigenous or sex status, but only in relation to other people. If other people were to praise blackness, indigenousness and being non-man, it would not suffer, but thrive. Do not essentialize.
      - mkr-hn 5y ago
        Yes, things would be different in a completely different culture other than the one we're discussing. That's why I weigh claims of oppression from Copts higher than I do from Baptists.

jayd16 5y ago

I agree with the sentiment but you're conflating what someone believes with who they are, ie, something someone can change vs something they can't. I don't really think anything should be off limits and off color jokes are an important art form to feel out emotions but I also think there's a clear difference in your examples.

simondotau 5y ago
Many jokes about people are grounded in aspects of a person which they can’t change. And even things they can in theory—can they really? Being obese isn’t just a choice. And of course nobody can change the past. Making jokes about aspects of transgenderism should be seen as a sign of cultural acceptance, not rejection.
ALittleLight 5y ago
I don't think there's a difference. Most people are the religion they are born into. There's no choice about that. Similarly, you have no choice about the religion or political alignment of your family.

travisporter 5y ago

The assumption you're making is all groups are formed on an equal premise. [People who see psychics] and [korean women] are both groups

SkeuomorphicBee 5y ago

It is not about "offend" some group, it is about deny their humanity. All persecution that ever happened in history always started with campaigns of dehumanisation, so now weary groups fight tooth and nail against all kinds of dehumanising rethoric. The problem is that the line between edgy humour and dehumanising propaganda is fuzzy at times.