4 ms·

Did you see the show? Transphobic is just about the last word I'd use to describe it, or Chapelle's message.

by brnt 5y ago

mkr-hn 5y ago
I have sufficient resolution on it from people who did watch it and had a wide range of takes on it from "it's not transphobic, don't be a dumbass" to "it wasn't exactly transphobic, but it wasn't good and I understand why people consider the bad jokes transphobic" without subjecting myself to it. Netflix's reaction is really the main subject of my comment. The way to interpret the show is just not relevant anymore. Netflix made it about Netflix.
- e40 5y ago
  More importantly than any of your associates, I have two important data points: I watched it and it was definitely not transphobic. Dave's trans female friend that committed suicide, her family supports Dave and says they believe it's not transphobic. Every single criticism I've seen has been general. None of them, except the ones which take stuff out of context, have specific gripes. That's how you know this is about shutting down debate they don't want to hear.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    You'll understand if I weigh the accounts of trans people who watched it over what you, Dave Chapelle, and the family of a trans person who can't speak for herself said.
    - CarelessExpert 5y ago
      You really gotta wonder how Dave would feel if a white person tried to explain to him how a joke he saw as racist wasn't actually racist, and besides, my black friend said it's fine... There must be some analog to "mansplaining" that fits, here. "Transplaining"? Hmm...
      - mkr-hn 5y ago
        I've seen cissplaining used to good effect.
    - e40 5y ago
      Before she died she supported Dave, as well. My main point stands: criticism of his special is too vague. It's almost as if many of the critics never watched the whole thing, having formed an opinion about it early on and stopped watching. I watched the entire thing and it is a single piece. There are no standalone jokes in that special. Every single word is in support of the last words he speaks. I even watched the special a second time to be sure I hadn't been bamboozled by Dave's wit and charm. I felt even more sure after the 2nd viewing that it's not transphobic.
      - mkr-hn 5y ago
        I am not discussing or interested in this hypothetical person who hasn't watched it but is still commenting as though they did. To reiterate: >> "You'll understand if I weigh the accounts of trans people who watched it over what you, Dave Chapelle, and the family of a trans person who can't speak for herself said."
        dazilcher 5y ago
        Tl;dr: I'm parroting someone else's opinion on a show I didn't watch.
- donatj 5y ago
  > I have sufficient resolution on it from people who did watch it Never trust other people's opinions on matters like this. Other people trust other people trust other people and you get mountains of wrong. Forming an opinion-based purely on other people's opinions is just a form of prejudice.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    My trust is based on cancelling Netflix long ago after a string of stand-up shows full of bigoted jokes. I don't need another data point.
    - pbak 5y ago
      Seeing that the last third of the show was a homage by Dave Chappelle to a comedian trans friend of his which committed suicide, maybe you should.
sterlind 5y ago
I can't bring myself to watch it. All I know is a quote from it where Chapelle describes himself as being on "Team TERF". Having spent months subjecting myself to abuse from TERFs in an attempt to empathize with them, I'm too scarred to expose myself to more of that. So you might be right. Maybe Chapelle was taken out of context. I doubt it, given what I've read, but I can't say for sure since I haven't watched it. But suppose it is homophobic, or transphobic. I'm actually okay with Netflix hosting it if so, but I don't want there to be double standards. Would Netflix host a racist stand-up routine? Perhaps one where the comedian says they're on "Team White Power" instead of "Team TERF?" Of course not! That's what grinds my gears - transphobia is edgy, apparently, not hateful like racism. And if Netflix is really committed to diversity of perspectives, why did they no-platform the Saudi Arabia documentary?
- robbiep 5y ago
  I haven’t watched it either (yet). I found this an interesting perspective however - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chappelle-the-closer/620364/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chapp...

Did you see the show? Transphobic is just about the last word I'd use to describe it, or Chapelle's message.

by brnt 5y ago

Did you see the show? Transphobic is just about the last word I'd use to describe it, or Chapelle's message.

I have sufficient resolution on it from people who did watch it and had a wide range of takes on it from "it's not transphobic, don't be a dumbass" to "it wasn't exactly transphobic, but it wasn't good and I understand why people consider the bad jokes transphobic" without subjecting myself to it. Netflix's reaction is really the main subject of my comment. The way to interpret the show is just not relevant anymore. Netflix made it about Netflix.

e40 5y ago
More importantly than any of your associates, I have two important data points: I watched it and it was definitely not transphobic. Dave's trans female friend that committed suicide, her family supports Dave and says they believe it's not transphobic. Every single criticism I've seen has been general. None of them, except the ones which take stuff out of context, have specific gripes. That's how you know this is about shutting down debate they don't want to hear.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  You'll understand if I weigh the accounts of trans people who watched it over what you, Dave Chapelle, and the family of a trans person who can't speak for herself said.
  - CarelessExpert 5y ago
    You really gotta wonder how Dave would feel if a white person tried to explain to him how a joke he saw as racist wasn't actually racist, and besides, my black friend said it's fine... There must be some analog to "mansplaining" that fits, here. "Transplaining"? Hmm...
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      I've seen cissplaining used to good effect.
  - e40 5y ago
    Before she died she supported Dave, as well. My main point stands: criticism of his special is too vague. It's almost as if many of the critics never watched the whole thing, having formed an opinion about it early on and stopped watching. I watched the entire thing and it is a single piece. There are no standalone jokes in that special. Every single word is in support of the last words he speaks. I even watched the special a second time to be sure I hadn't been bamboozled by Dave's wit and charm. I felt even more sure after the 2nd viewing that it's not transphobic.
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      I am not discussing or interested in this hypothetical person who hasn't watched it but is still commenting as though they did. To reiterate: >> "You'll understand if I weigh the accounts of trans people who watched it over what you, Dave Chapelle, and the family of a trans person who can't speak for herself said."
      - dazilcher 5y ago
        Tl;dr: I'm parroting someone else's opinion on a show I didn't watch.
donatj 5y ago
> I have sufficient resolution on it from people who did watch it Never trust other people's opinions on matters like this. Other people trust other people trust other people and you get mountains of wrong. Forming an opinion-based purely on other people's opinions is just a form of prejudice.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  My trust is based on cancelling Netflix long ago after a string of stand-up shows full of bigoted jokes. I don't need another data point.
  - pbak 5y ago
    Seeing that the last third of the show was a homage by Dave Chappelle to a comedian trans friend of his which committed suicide, maybe you should.

sterlind 5y ago

I can't bring myself to watch it. All I know is a quote from it where Chapelle describes himself as being on "Team TERF". Having spent months subjecting myself to abuse from TERFs in an attempt to empathize with them, I'm too scarred to expose myself to more of that. So you might be right. Maybe Chapelle was taken out of context. I doubt it, given what I've read, but I can't say for sure since I haven't watched it. But suppose it is homophobic, or transphobic. I'm actually okay with Netflix hosting it if so, but I don't want there to be double standards. Would Netflix host a racist stand-up routine? Perhaps one where the comedian says they're on "Team White Power" instead of "Team TERF?" Of course not! That's what grinds my gears - transphobia is edgy, apparently, not hateful like racism. And if Netflix is really committed to diversity of perspectives, why did they no-platform the Saudi Arabia documentary?

robbiep 5y ago
I haven’t watched it either (yet). I found this an interesting perspective however - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chappelle-the-closer/620364/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chapp...