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>even I can see the use case where you can gain those in-game and then manage them outside of the game, trade them with other players, and maybe bring them with

>even I can see the use case where you can gain those in-game and then manage them outside of the game, trade them with other players, and maybe bring them with you to the next version of the game or even to another game. All of this sounds completely dependent on the game designers, which is the opposite of decentralized, no? What requires NFTs? You can't just "bring" something into another game.

meowface 5y ago
>What requires NFTs? You can't just "bring" something into another game. Isn't that kind of the point of NFTs? With an NFT, you hypothetically could bring something into another game. You'd need different developers to agree to recognize certain NFTs, though. I think the better question to ask is the reverse: what requires bringing things into different games? Historically, nothing. This doesn't seem to be a thing most developers want. And if they don't want that, there wouldn't be a point to implementing NFTs, since they're already keeping things centralized. So it's really just a philosophical discussion about the idea of things being tradable between and outside of particular games, and the potential merits of that, rather than a technical discussion about NFTs.
- hakfoo 5y ago
  For this to be useful, you'd need an infrastructure-- standard APIs and formats for interchange. I'm picturing the initial sell as like those old Pokemon events or trading via the link cable, but you could buy a Trabant P601 from Gran Turismo, Zhongli from Genshin Impact, and Messi from FIFA21 to drop into the game too. How do you make use of that sort of open-ended diversity without ruining gameplay? You'd either be limited to trivial uses (avatars/skins or randomizations) or you'd have a huge vector for feeding in game-breaking items and characters. The alternative is a closed network-- only allowing a small selection of pre-vetted NFTs that won't break the game, which adds very little value over something like the Skylanders/Infinity/Amiibo concept that already exists, except you don't get a cool figure too.
janstice 5y ago
Doesn’t require NFTs, but NFTs could solve the problem of digital trading in untrustworthy markets - like game codes and event tickets. (Introduce other problems too, like getting hijacked by people who are overexcited at the thought of fractionalised links to jpgs…).
- MystK 5y ago
  Does it really solve for digital trading in untrustworthy markets though? How would the smart contract verify that the event ticket or game code was legitimate? If it was up to the buyer, they could just lie.
  - IanCal 5y ago
    I'm not sure I understand the question - the ticket would be on the blockchain and therefore easily verifiable.
andreilys 5y ago
The point of NFT's is that, yes, you could bring something into another game (As long as the devs allow porting of NFT goods into their game). As an example, if someone has a Runescape party hat, they could equip that on their world of warcraft character.
- irskep 5y ago
  This still makes absolutely no sense to me. The developer of Runescape is not going to collaborate with the developer of Warcraft to give them a copy of the model, figure out how the stats translate, put the textures in the right format, etc. Games use completely different equations for damage, defense, speed, etc. It's 100% magical thinking. Even if you did have game items transferring across totally unrelated games, you'd _want_ a centralized database to make bug fixes possible. After all, games as a class of programs aren't known for being bug-free.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    Yes, there is no metadata standard at the moment. But if that existed, the Runescape and Warcraft developers would not have to coordinate at all.
    - jameshart 5y ago
      So.... this party hat asset comes with a permissive license that lets world of warcraft distribute it from their servers down to players' clients, right? So that the people who are playing on the same server as the owner of this NFT can see the hat, being worn by that player, in their game? But then if it's licensed that freely, what's to stop world of warcraft just using it in general? Put it on a bunch of NPCs. Let any player put it on their own character. Or does the license have some sort of restrictions - 'you may only use this asset as a hat on the player character of the person who owns this NFT'? How's that enforced? Seriously, WHY would WoW go to the trouble of supporting this nonsense?
      - andreilys 5y ago
dropnerd 5y ago
builders around loot project are exploring this (disclaimer: i own a few of their nfts) there are primitive games that are building on top of other projects' nfts because it's a way to secure an initial audience.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Ok, but couldn't they build off the content of those NFTs, just without bothering to actually care about the NFTs? I don't get why this artificial restriction-by-convention is appealing.
  - dropnerd 5y ago
    there could be licensing restrictions. (i think we can do better, but it's a path.) in the absence of licensing restrictions, the nft owners are incentivized to prefer projects that provide utility for their nfts.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      > there could be licensing restrictions. Ok, but the supposed benefit was to a game's prospective competition. Why in the hell would the game developer want to license content created for their game to be used in a competitor's game? > in the absence of licensing restrictions, the nft owners are incentivized to prefer projects that provide utility for their nfts. And everyone who doesn't have those NFTs have no such incentive. Even if I own game X's NFTs, there is no disincentive for me to play game Y that straight up uses game Z's NFTs for free. Or hell, even if it used game X's. I might want to play with an item I don't have in game X, after all. If a game came out tomorrow that reused TF2's hats and shit, do you really think anyone would consider the fact that they have hats in their TF2 account a disincentive to play the new game? This is like that part in HGttG[0] where the Golgafrinchans decided leaves were currency and burnt down the forests to ensure their scarcity. I have no idea why you people can't see how mad you all are. [0] In case anyone doesn't know: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams.

meowface 5y ago

>What requires NFTs? You can't just "bring" something into another game. Isn't that kind of the point of NFTs? With an NFT, you hypothetically could bring something into another game. You'd need different developers to agree to recognize certain NFTs, though. I think the better question to ask is the reverse: what requires bringing things into different games? Historically, nothing. This doesn't seem to be a thing most developers want. And if they don't want that, there wouldn't be a point to implementing NFTs, since they're already keeping things centralized. So it's really just a philosophical discussion about the idea of things being tradable between and outside of particular games, and the potential merits of that, rather than a technical discussion about NFTs.

hakfoo 5y ago
For this to be useful, you'd need an infrastructure-- standard APIs and formats for interchange. I'm picturing the initial sell as like those old Pokemon events or trading via the link cable, but you could buy a Trabant P601 from Gran Turismo, Zhongli from Genshin Impact, and Messi from FIFA21 to drop into the game too. How do you make use of that sort of open-ended diversity without ruining gameplay? You'd either be limited to trivial uses (avatars/skins or randomizations) or you'd have a huge vector for feeding in game-breaking items and characters. The alternative is a closed network-- only allowing a small selection of pre-vetted NFTs that won't break the game, which adds very little value over something like the Skylanders/Infinity/Amiibo concept that already exists, except you don't get a cool figure too.

janstice 5y ago

Doesn’t require NFTs, but NFTs could solve the problem of digital trading in untrustworthy markets - like game codes and event tickets. (Introduce other problems too, like getting hijacked by people who are overexcited at the thought of fractionalised links to jpgs…).

MystK 5y ago
Does it really solve for digital trading in untrustworthy markets though? How would the smart contract verify that the event ticket or game code was legitimate? If it was up to the buyer, they could just lie.
- IanCal 5y ago
  I'm not sure I understand the question - the ticket would be on the blockchain and therefore easily verifiable.

andreilys 5y ago

The point of NFT's is that, yes, you could bring something into another game (As long as the devs allow porting of NFT goods into their game). As an example, if someone has a Runescape party hat, they could equip that on their world of warcraft character.

irskep 5y ago
This still makes absolutely no sense to me. The developer of Runescape is not going to collaborate with the developer of Warcraft to give them a copy of the model, figure out how the stats translate, put the textures in the right format, etc. Games use completely different equations for damage, defense, speed, etc. It's 100% magical thinking. Even if you did have game items transferring across totally unrelated games, you'd _want_ a centralized database to make bug fixes possible. After all, games as a class of programs aren't known for being bug-free.
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  Yes, there is no metadata standard at the moment. But if that existed, the Runescape and Warcraft developers would not have to coordinate at all.
  - jameshart 5y ago
    So.... this party hat asset comes with a permissive license that lets world of warcraft distribute it from their servers down to players' clients, right? So that the people who are playing on the same server as the owner of this NFT can see the hat, being worn by that player, in their game? But then if it's licensed that freely, what's to stop world of warcraft just using it in general? Put it on a bunch of NPCs. Let any player put it on their own character. Or does the license have some sort of restrictions - 'you may only use this asset as a hat on the player character of the person who owns this NFT'? How's that enforced? Seriously, WHY would WoW go to the trouble of supporting this nonsense?
    - andreilys 5y ago

dropnerd 5y ago

builders around loot project are exploring this (disclaimer: i own a few of their nfts) there are primitive games that are building on top of other projects' nfts because it's a way to secure an initial audience.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Ok, but couldn't they build off the content of those NFTs, just without bothering to actually care about the NFTs? I don't get why this artificial restriction-by-convention is appealing.
- dropnerd 5y ago
  there could be licensing restrictions. (i think we can do better, but it's a path.) in the absence of licensing restrictions, the nft owners are incentivized to prefer projects that provide utility for their nfts.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    > there could be licensing restrictions. Ok, but the supposed benefit was to a game's prospective competition. Why in the hell would the game developer want to license content created for their game to be used in a competitor's game? > in the absence of licensing restrictions, the nft owners are incentivized to prefer projects that provide utility for their nfts. And everyone who doesn't have those NFTs have no such incentive. Even if I own game X's NFTs, there is no disincentive for me to play game Y that straight up uses game Z's NFTs for free. Or hell, even if it used game X's. I might want to play with an item I don't have in game X, after all. If a game came out tomorrow that reused TF2's hats and shit, do you really think anyone would consider the fact that they have hats in their TF2 account a disincentive to play the new game? This is like that part in HGttG[0] where the Golgafrinchans decided leaves were currency and burnt down the forests to ensure their scarcity. I have no idea why you people can't see how mad you all are. [0] In case anyone doesn't know: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams.