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Despite what a lot of people believe, girls in the US still are given the message that engineering, computers, and hard sciences aren't 'right' for them. Thin

Despite what a lot of people believe, girls in the US still are given the message that engineering, computers, and hard sciences aren't 'right' for them. Things are slowly changing but its not there yet, not when most of the population of the UI also thinks girls aren't suited to these professions. HN, by and large, also happily insists that men are naturally better than women at logical thinking. You'll see it all over this thread. It's not hard to challenge this belief once one starts looking outside the US. We had female poster here, a couple of months ago, who said that in Gaza the computer science courses were 60-70% female. It's hard to reconcile that with hand-wavey statements about 'brain chemicals' so it's easy to ignore.

Manuel_D 5y ago
I went to elementary school in the 1990s and middle and high school in the 2000s. I was heavily into math, science, and technology since elementary school. There was extensive messaging and outreach trying to get girls and women into these interests. The lack of women in these fields was despite extensive resources trying to appeal to them, and it's been this way for at least several decades. The disparity with places like the middle east is an example of the gender equality paradox [1]. The more patriarchal and oppressive a place is, the greater women's interest are in high paying fields as it provides a path to security and independence. In more egalitarian societies, women are more free to pursue fields in accordance with their own iterests. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more...
- nineplay 5y ago
  I've got a girl in public school right now. I've seen the outreach programs and they're pathetic. To start with, they start with the belief that they need to reach out only to girls. Guess what - if the boys don't think the girls can do science and math than there are still a lot of problems to overcome. Easy example - any girl who started reading the HN message boards at a young age would probably give up on a future career in engineering. Why try when a bunch of educated men don't think you can succeed? The article is interesting but not definitive. Even granting ( which I wouldn't ) that girls have a greater aptitude for reading instead of science and math, being a good _engineer_ is also about being a good reader. If boys are naturally better at math, that doesn't at all mean they are better professionals. If they can't read the instructions for using Vivado to design firmware, than they are in the wrong profession.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > Why try when a bunch of educated men don't think you can succeed? I haven't seen a single person on HN say that women can't succeed in this field.
  - Manuel_D 5y ago
    The idea that misogyny among men is responsible for keeping women out of STEM fields contrasts starkly with the considerably higher representation of women in STEM in highly misogynistic countries and lower representation in more equal countries. I've also rarely encountered commenters on hacker news saying women cannot succeed in engineering, and it's downvote heavily in the rare instances it does appear. You claim it's present in this thread, in your previous comment, yet don't link to any instances of this alleged disparagement. It strikes me as the kind of statement that stems from assumptions rather than concrete observations.

Manuel_D 5y ago

I went to elementary school in the 1990s and middle and high school in the 2000s. I was heavily into math, science, and technology since elementary school. There was extensive messaging and outreach trying to get girls and women into these interests. The lack of women in these fields was despite extensive resources trying to appeal to them, and it's been this way for at least several decades. The disparity with places like the middle east is an example of the gender equality paradox [1]. The more patriarchal and oppressive a place is, the greater women's interest are in high paying fields as it provides a path to security and independence. In more egalitarian societies, women are more free to pursue fields in accordance with their own iterests. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more...

nineplay 5y ago
I've got a girl in public school right now. I've seen the outreach programs and they're pathetic. To start with, they start with the belief that they need to reach out only to girls. Guess what - if the boys don't think the girls can do science and math than there are still a lot of problems to overcome. Easy example - any girl who started reading the HN message boards at a young age would probably give up on a future career in engineering. Why try when a bunch of educated men don't think you can succeed? The article is interesting but not definitive. Even granting ( which I wouldn't ) that girls have a greater aptitude for reading instead of science and math, being a good _engineer_ is also about being a good reader. If boys are naturally better at math, that doesn't at all mean they are better professionals. If they can't read the instructions for using Vivado to design firmware, than they are in the wrong profession.
- Jensson 5y ago
  > Why try when a bunch of educated men don't think you can succeed? I haven't seen a single person on HN say that women can't succeed in this field.
- Manuel_D 5y ago
  The idea that misogyny among men is responsible for keeping women out of STEM fields contrasts starkly with the considerably higher representation of women in STEM in highly misogynistic countries and lower representation in more equal countries. I've also rarely encountered commenters on hacker news saying women cannot succeed in engineering, and it's downvote heavily in the rare instances it does appear. You claim it's present in this thread, in your previous comment, yet don't link to any instances of this alleged disparagement. It strikes me as the kind of statement that stems from assumptions rather than concrete observations.