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>if a class in college starts with 20% Indian women, then it should ideally graduate with ~20% Indian women So you want to make college classes easier for cert

• dagmx 5y ago
  That's not what I said at all, and you're purposefully trying to put words there that aren't. We should be aiming for close to equal results, and trying to understand why we aren't getting those. I never said how one should achieve equal results on both the input and output. I just said that's the more realistic goal. I even say that it's not going to be exact. The point is to analyze, and come up with well formed opinions based on data. If a certain demographic is dropping out at a higher rate, maybe it's worth understanding why? Are they simply not as good? Do they have societal pressures from their homes? Do they face harassment from other majority demographics? Do they have other factors like lack of health support? There's many factors that play into it. We need the data to understand the discrepancy, and then to start understanding why that discrepancy exists.
  • 3maj 5y ago
    Except it's not a realistic goal. Because most of the things you're talking about tracking are 100% subjective and unquantifiable. To some a hard home life is their parents not letting them drink while to others is their parents kicking them out at 18. To some discrimination is a rude comment while to others its something that's actually discrimination. The list goes on. You have kids that didn't get any financial support from their families because the family couldn't afford it (much like myself) that did perfectly fine in school, while others who came from millionaire parents ended up dropping out. This game of "lets see who has it the worst and then try to help them by making life easier for them" never f*cking work. It's a never ending loop. The most you can do is make the standards for acceptance across the board fair and then provide the tools required for success to every student.
    • dagmx 5y ago
      You're bringing up a few straw man arguments like the drinking. The point is "what adversities are preventing this demographic (not individual) from getting the success that other demographics have in this program" Support should absolutely be given uniformly to all students, but how can you recognize what new forms of support need to exist till you start analyzing things? You're also focusing on the lowering of the bar of passing to make people pass. It's not about lowering standards. I'm not sure why people go there, other than the implicit belief that the people who couldn't meet the bar were all somehow less than It's instead about providing equal footing to be able to reach for that bar. Some people still won't make it. But at least their footing isn't being actively eroded from under them. Think about family support as just one example. Some people are held back because they need to look after children (their own or others). Providing subsidized daycare helps them out without lowering the standard for anyone. What about mental health? Someone's just moved away from their family and support group. They're in a class with local people. Their temporary depression is holding them back and it snowballs. Providing student counseling, or creating communities would help them and in turn help others. Again, not lowering the standard. Now let's talk about discrimination. What if you have a professor with an implicit bias? They are giving certain demographics a harder time. Seeing that they have a much lower rate of passing among those demographics, versus similar programs in other schools, might help identify the program. Again, it hasn't lowered the standard. It's just given everyone equal footing.