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Fun fact. In Sweden it's available to anyone. Anyone can also find out find out where you're living, whom you're living with and what vehicle you're driving (am
by unicornporn 5y ago
Fun fact. In Sweden it's available to anyone. Anyone can also find out find out where you're living, whom you're living with and what vehicle you're driving (among other things). It's a part of offentlighetprincipen[1].
[1] [PDF] https://www.regeringen.se/4a76f3/contentassets/2c767a1ae4e8469fbfd0fc044998ab78/public-access-to-information-and-secrecy.pdf https://www.regeringen.se/4a76f3/contentassets/2c767a1ae4e84...
- sucrose 5y agoThis is the main reason PewDiePie (game streamer) moved out of Sweden.
- Jolter 5y agoI doubt it. More likely he didn’t enjoy the tax rates…
- jimbob45 5y agoDoes that not lead to the potential sticky situations that my mind immediately jumps to? Edit: I read through your link and did some light browsing of my own (later stonewalled by the fact that I don't speak any of the Scandinavian languages). I don't see anywhere that a citizen can re-assert their right to privacy but that would seem to be necessary in some cases (e.g. Twitch streamers wanting to remain incognito to avoid getting SWATted or otherwise frequently visited by police).
- bob1029 5y agoCan we provide some examples?
- anchpop 5y agocelebrities getting harassed at their houses
- unicornporn 5y agoI guess it happens. But if you really want to harass a celebrity, can't you just follow them to their house?
- gibolt 5y agoYou have to find them first. Knowing their address means knowing where to find them, and that they can't escape you
- cmckn 5y agoThis is actually pretty commonplace in the LA area. I mean, you can take a tour bus that points out dozens of celebrity’s homes. It’s why many actors and influencers hire private security.
- flatiron 5y agoHi lady at the grocery store what is your name. It’s Jane Smith Later that day…
- anonAndOn 5y agoRebecca Schaeffer's murder led to some privacy reforms in the US.[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Schaeffer
- Jolter 5y agoAn example from Sweden would be appropriate.
- anonAndOn 5y agoWas it random or did Olof Palme have a stalker?[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme
- Jolter 5y agoNeither. The murder case has been officially resolved so you can just Google it now. Btw his place of residence was hardly secret, but it wouldn’t have been if he were prime minister of any other particular country either.
- anonAndOn 5y ago"Most critics focused on the absence of forensic evidence, charging that Petersson's case was made up of speculation and circumstantial evidence." But if the case is officially resolved, well that's all good then. Nobody followed the Prime Minister to the theater and waited for him to leave in the dark of night. No stalking to see here, because Sweden. Move along.
- Jolter 5y agoThe official conclusion was that the murderer did probably spot the Palmes as they entered the cinema, giving him time to go and borrow a revolver and get back in time to kill him once the movie was over. I don’t know any definition of stalking that would include that sequence of events. But the topic was data privacy - I strongly doubt that the facts that Palme’s person number and address were public contributed to his death.
- unicornporn 5y agoYou'll have to help me. What does your mind jump to?
- unicornporn 5y ago> I don't see anywhere that a citizen can re-assert their right to privacy That's because you usually can't. In extreme cases you may be eligible for protected identity[1], but that status is not easily achieved. [1] https://skatteverket.se/servicelankar/otherlanguages/inenglish/individualsandemployees/protectedidentity.4.96cca41179bad4b1aa9382.html https://skatteverket.se/servicelankar/otherlanguages/inengli...
- Jolter 5y ago> I don't see anywhere that a citizen can re-assert their right to privacy Rights depend on jurisdiction. I’m not aware of any right to privacy regarding place of residence or tax returns in Sweden. A resident is entitled to file for a “protected identity” which would obscure their address, phone number and person number on these types of services. Even celebrities tend to avoid doing that unless they have a persistent stalker, because it leads to all sorts of practical problems when dealing with everyday administration.
- Salgat 5y agoThe issue is never general doxxing, it's targeted attacks.
- HenryKissinger 5y agoNot a problem in high trust societies.
- AYBABTME 5y agoKorea is a high trust society and stalking is a huge problem.
- blitz_skull 5y agoIt's never a problem. Until it is. Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a "high trust" society.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Jolter 5y agoJust count the number of celebrities murdered by stalkers each year in Sweden to learn the risk. That’s right, it’s 0.
- zenithd 5y agoIn the United States SSNs are treated as secret. I shouldn't have t care if other people know my DOB or SSN, but I have to care because tons of companies and government offices use these as proof of ID.
- ShockedUnicorn 5y agoFor an even clearer example. There's this list of the 25 most searched for people last year: https://www.ratsit.se/info/omtalade/mest-eftersokta-forra-aret/ https://www.ratsit.se/info/omtalade/mest-eftersokta-forra-ar... . I can recognize several celebrities there, most of them artists, and even our prime minister. You can see addresses, if they own dogs, which cars they own, what salary they have (the site I linked needs payment for that, but there's other ways to get it for free), the companies they own or own a part of.
- werds 5y agothis is very valuable data for any advertiser to use for targeting
- fogihujy 5y agoThat would not be GDPR-compatible.
- unicornporn 5y ago> the sites have publishing certificates, which gives them the same constitutional protection as the media. They are not covered by the GDPR and the Data Inspectorate can therefore not examine them. It is also written that the authority has been critical of the fact that the sites can receive constitutional protection through the publication certificate. [1] [1] https://www-svt-se.translate.goog/nyheter/inrikes/jurist-tar-strid-for-gdpr?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sv&_x_tr_pto=nui https://www-svt-se.translate.goog/nyheter/inrikes/jurist-tar...
- fogihujy 5y agoI'm sure the sites are legal. I was referring to the comment about such data being used for marketing.
- Jolter 5y agoI’m sure they get direct mailings from purveyors of exclusive consumer products. Just like I’m already getting mail about buying a house because I bought an apartment last year. What’s the harm?
- willvarfar 5y agoYes. America’s problem is that they use the SSN as a secret. Knowing it means you can impersonate someone. Whereas in Sweden the “person number” is public information and identity is authenticated and authorized in other ways (by showing a driving license or using a “bank id” app etc). In the nordics how much tax you pay (meaning for most people you can just divide by twelve to determine salary) is also public info. As is how much houses sell for etc.
- progre 5y agoThe public library probably have the local "Tax-calendar" (taxeringskalendern). Like an old fashioned phone book except instead of phone numbers it has the taxed income for everyone in your town for the last year (there is of course web sites with this info too but no free service that I know of). Spent an hour at the library looking up my coworkers salaries when prepping for my first pay negotiation many years ago.
- barbarbar 5y agoThat seems like a horrible sideeffect of that system.
- Fnoord 5y agoI wonder if the publicity works well against work via tax evasion. Anyone can combine whatever you do with your ID. If you earn a lot of money black on the side (e.g. via drugs dealing), while your income is public and you got this expensive car, then its not just suspicious. Anyone can look you up, figure out you're a sham, and report you.
- progre 5y agoTrue, people with low income and flashy spending habits regularly attracts the attention of the tax authorities. So a little bit more savvy criminals funnels their black money through a legit company, in effect paying taxes on a little bit of it. Restaurants was/is popular for this (mostly cash). Used car businesses too.
- progre 5y agoI believe Offentlighetsprincipen is one of the main foundations of the success of Sweden as a democracy. It acts like a filter on corruption. Dumb politicians are regularly exposed early in their careers. Only really smart, subtly corrupt politicians make it to the top level of government.
- bradknowles 5y agoYou mean, like Mr. T? Or Putin? I wouldn’t call those subtle. Now, if you’re referring to only those politicians in your own country, then I have no reference for levels of subtlety involved.
- progre 5y agoWell, Sweden of course. Niether USA nor Russia have the Offentlighetsprincip as far as I know.