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If it wouldn’t disappear then it’s not a cost that can be attributed to the current financial system. You may as well say that since the current financial syst

by zepto 5y ago

If it wouldn’t disappear then it’s not a cost that can be attributed to the current financial system. You may as well say that since the current financial system enabled the development of computers and the internet which were pre-requisites for the development of Bitcoin, then Bitcoin was paid in blood.

betwixthewires 5y ago
That's a bit too reductionist IMO. Human beings didn't invent suffering, animals rended each other limb from lim for eternity before us, so does that mean the suffering from warfare cannot be attributed to human beings, or that past suffering was not attributable to the state of the world then?? Warfare for profit existed before America, so does that mean the american military industrial complex cannot be attributed to America, or that Roman conquest cannot be attributable to Rome seeing as conquest did not disappear? You can very clearly see that the current state of affairs is propped up with blood. That doesn't mean the future state of affairs won't also be supported by suffering and death, but that doesn't absolve the current state of things.
- zepto 5y ago
  Nobody is trying to absolve anything. The point is that Bitcoin won’t either.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    > If it wouldn’t disappear then it’s not a cost that can be attributed to the current financial system. That's a pretty clear absolution. Bitcoin might not solve this problem, but it (or I should say cryptocurrency) can resolve an existing problem with the financial system, that is, manipulating worldwide economics by manipulating money supply. Perhaps that level of economic control is used to prop up imperialism, colonialism and might makes right to some degree. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
    - zepto 5y ago
      >> If it wouldn’t disappear then it’s not a cost that can be attributed to the current financial system. > That's a pretty clear absolution. Not even close. You seem to be interested in attributing blame. My comment is about causality. If your assumption is that the financial system is the cause of imperialist oppression, then you will also be likely to believe that an alternative financial system can be the cure. I think that’s naïvely utopian. If Bitcoin is money, then powerful people will use it the same way money has always been used. At best you might reshuffle who is in power, but ultimately it will just be a case of “it’s my turn with the gun now”.
      - betwixthewires 5y ago
        > If your assumption is that the financial system is the cause of imperialist oppression... I've clearly stated my point: that the current world economic system is to some degree reliant on continuing oppressive warfare. That's the only claim I'm making. I've also very clearly stated that my point is not that bitcoin is the cure, only that it would assist in toppling the current largest incentive for oppressive warfare. I've clearly stated that I don't think k it is a cure. You're arguing with yourself at this point.
        zepto 5y ago
        > only that it would assist in toppling the current largest incentive for oppressive warfare You have made no case for this.

by zepto 5y ago

betwixthewires 5y ago

That's a bit too reductionist IMO. Human beings didn't invent suffering, animals rended each other limb from lim for eternity before us, so does that mean the suffering from warfare cannot be attributed to human beings, or that past suffering was not attributable to the state of the world then?? Warfare for profit existed before America, so does that mean the american military industrial complex cannot be attributed to America, or that Roman conquest cannot be attributable to Rome seeing as conquest did not disappear? You can very clearly see that the current state of affairs is propped up with blood. That doesn't mean the future state of affairs won't also be supported by suffering and death, but that doesn't absolve the current state of things.

zepto 5y ago
Nobody is trying to absolve anything. The point is that Bitcoin won’t either.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  > If it wouldn’t disappear then it’s not a cost that can be attributed to the current financial system. That's a pretty clear absolution. Bitcoin might not solve this problem, but it (or I should say cryptocurrency) can resolve an existing problem with the financial system, that is, manipulating worldwide economics by manipulating money supply. Perhaps that level of economic control is used to prop up imperialism, colonialism and might makes right to some degree. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
  - zepto 5y ago
    >> If it wouldn’t disappear then it’s not a cost that can be attributed to the current financial system. > That's a pretty clear absolution. Not even close. You seem to be interested in attributing blame. My comment is about causality. If your assumption is that the financial system is the cause of imperialist oppression, then you will also be likely to believe that an alternative financial system can be the cure. I think that’s naïvely utopian. If Bitcoin is money, then powerful people will use it the same way money has always been used. At best you might reshuffle who is in power, but ultimately it will just be a case of “it’s my turn with the gun now”.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      > If your assumption is that the financial system is the cause of imperialist oppression... I've clearly stated my point: that the current world economic system is to some degree reliant on continuing oppressive warfare. That's the only claim I'm making. I've also very clearly stated that my point is not that bitcoin is the cure, only that it would assist in toppling the current largest incentive for oppressive warfare. I've clearly stated that I don't think k it is a cure. You're arguing with yourself at this point.
      - zepto 5y ago
        > only that it would assist in toppling the current largest incentive for oppressive warfare You have made no case for this.