5 ms·

"If you depend on proprietary mainstream mobile messenger applications, banking applications, use loyalty or travel apps, consume DRM media, or play mobile vide

"If you depend on proprietary mainstream mobile messenger applications, banking applications, use loyalty or travel apps, consume DRM media, or play mobile video games on your fruit or Android smartphone, then the PinePhone Pro is likely not for you." Yikes. I appreciate they are up front about it, but that eliminates literally everyone I know.

ryukafalz 5y ago
Then literally everyone you know is dependent on either Apple or Google.
- CubsFan1060 5y ago
  Probably. But I don't think those requirements are unreasonable. It feels like it largely boils down to "I buy a smartphone to accomplish certain tasks easily". If you eliminate many of those tasks, is it a useful device for those people anymore?
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    I don’t think you’re incorrect in making your point here, yet your framing is a bit unreasonable. Pine phone isn’t supposed to be the equivalent to a modern smartphone. It’s a small project that has an entirely new platform with no major corporate backing. What you’re asking of it isn’t realistic until it has significant enough time and traction to fully mature.
    - CubsFan1060 5y ago
      That's probably a very fair point. I wonder what the minimum modern requirements would be for a viable "mainstream" phone. Common messaging apps (SMS, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Slack). Social media apps (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok). email (Though an average stock email app is probably sufficient). Google Apps (gmail, google maps, etc..). Navigation (google maps is sufficient for most) Probably some set of games. I suspect the real viable option is being able to run Android apps natively without any special configuration.
      - 29083011397778 5y ago
        If that's the bar, then mobile Linux is simultaneously very fucking far, and dramatically closer than most people might think. As far as messaging apps, they're all technically there - the best kind of there for the crowd that this would interest. Spinning up a Matrix server means maybe a days work for this crowd, which allows (and I currently use it for) Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram, and more. Even better, due to constant improvements by Matrix, the server is only getting lighter and your options more varied with things like Construct [0]. Email is there - one only really needs to ensure geary is set to scale to the phone screen. As far as gMail, I'd question what the overlap is between "Privacy conscious enough to use a Pinephone" and "Uses gMail instead of anything IMAP". That only leaves navigation and social media. For the former, I've used the mobile site in-browser on my Android phone that the Google Maps app was too heavy for. And for both on the Pinephone, especially the pro, Waydroid [1] is getting closer to closing the gap. To be honest, I could see it being mainstream for geeks within two years. Though that's unlikely what you meant by mainstream - which I think we can agree is several more years away, if ever. [0] https://github.com/matrix-construct/construct https://github.com/matrix-construct/construct [1] https://github.com/waydroid/waydroid https://github.com/waydroid/waydroid
        RDaneel0livaw 5y ago
        Wait a sec, are you telling me there's a way for me to participate in whatsapp conversations without actually having whatsapp installed on my phone? I am currently forced to use whatsapp by my work for supporting overseas live events, but I absolutely hate having anything related to facebook installed on my phone. Until now I just put up with it because I didn't know there was an alternative. Can you help me understand how this works?
        29083011397778 5y ago
        Sorry, I'm not sure I should have gotten your hopes up like that: First and foremost, calling does not work. Hosting a Matrix server [0], configuring the bridge [1], then running the client [2] anywhere you are will allow you to send and receive Whatsapp messages, status updates, pictures, videos, etc. It's currently limited to using the WebUI - this means one is limited to the functions available through Whatsapp Web. This may, someday, possibly, change with Whatsapps new multi-device implementation, but I'd advise taking it for what it is instead of hoping it'll happen any time soon. All that said, I've been using it for some time now. It's gotten much more stable, and I can recommend it for what it is. [0] https://matrix-org.github.io/synapse/latest/setup/installation.html https://matrix-org.github.io/synapse/latest/setup/installati... [1] https://matrix.org/bridges/ https://matrix.org/bridges/ [2] https://matrix.org/clients/ https://matrix.org/clients/
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - db579 5y ago
    Really depends how you define the task doesn't it? If it's "I have the ability to message other people" there's plenty of ways to accomplish that on this device. If you define the task as "I need to message other people specifically on a Google/Apple messenger application", well then it's always going to be out of Pine64s hands to some extent?
    - CubsFan1060 5y ago
      How about "I need to message other people in a way that doesn't make everyone I know have to change the current way they do things". I wasn't necessarily referring to iMessage. But, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Slack. To be fair, I've also failed to find a list of supported apps. The best I found was: https://www.reddit.com/r/PINE64official/comments/okjeuk/apps_for_pinephone/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PINE64official/comments/okjeuk/apps...
      - johnny53169 5y ago
        > How about "I need to message other people in a way that doesn't make everyone I know have to change the current way they do things". Isn't that the exact purpose of those walled gardens, so it'd be hard to change platforms?
      - fsflover 5y ago
        Telegram is working flawlessly on my Pinephone with Mobian.
  - EastOfTruth 5y ago
    > banking applications I'd rather use the web app, it gives them less information about me
smallerfish 5y ago
Theoretically you can run those apps via anbox. I've tested whatsapp via anbox on my desktop ubuntu install at least, and it works fine. Remains to be seen how well it'll work on this upgraded hardware, and I'm sure they're being conservative because of that.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  There's also this somewhat new project called waydroid that runs android applications closer to the metal than an emulator would. https://waydro.id/ https://waydro.id/
  - chayleaf 5y ago
    waydroid is an anbox fork afaik
thepete2 5y ago
I mean, couldn't you dual-boot android on this thing? Or is the SoC not supported?
- officeplant 5y ago
  Android is supported on some Rockchip SBC's out there. I imagine the problem would be getting modem support working.
MatthiasPortzel 5y ago
I think there's a difference between "depend on" and "use." Most everyone that currently has an iPhone or Android is going to use those features. But for every Youtube video that I watch on my phone, I watch many more on my computer. I use my phone for browsing HN and Twitter, taking pictures, checking my email, and of course getting texts. I have a banking app installed, but that's not the reason that I have a phone. I would have to post to Instagram from my computer, but other than that, I could use a PinePhone. Unfortunately, it looks like the only positive of the PinePhone right now is "free software." But my point is that it's possible for PinePhone to convince me by adding brand new features—they don't necessarily have to support every iPhone app to win users over.
- aiilns 5y ago
  A bit irrelevant, but I don't think you can post to Instagram from your computer, got to use the app.
  - KeeganS 5y ago
    It used to be that you could use developer tools to emulate a smartphone and be redirected to the mobile site, which would let you post.
    - James-Livesey 5y ago
      It seems that you can still post from the web version of Instagram on mobile (just tested it now on Android Chrome) — I should imagine that it still works in the DevTools mobile emulator (though you do have to refresh the page). Using the Instagram PWA may be a viable way of using Instagram on mobile Linux. Still can't seem to post stories on the PWA, though.
reginold 5y ago
This is the reality today. The device is still developer-only. I just bought one thinking I could ditch my iPhone -- not yet. It's hard knowing that there are no good options besides Android and iOS. I'm aware of de-Googled Android versions but those are less appealing given the Google base. We need an open source solution.
djent 5y ago
That's the vendor lock-in to the walled garden app stores. It works, and if you want to break the cycle, you need something new.

ryukafalz 5y ago

Then literally everyone you know is dependent on either Apple or Google.

CubsFan1060 5y ago
Probably. But I don't think those requirements are unreasonable. It feels like it largely boils down to "I buy a smartphone to accomplish certain tasks easily". If you eliminate many of those tasks, is it a useful device for those people anymore?
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  I don’t think you’re incorrect in making your point here, yet your framing is a bit unreasonable. Pine phone isn’t supposed to be the equivalent to a modern smartphone. It’s a small project that has an entirely new platform with no major corporate backing. What you’re asking of it isn’t realistic until it has significant enough time and traction to fully mature.
  - CubsFan1060 5y ago
    That's probably a very fair point. I wonder what the minimum modern requirements would be for a viable "mainstream" phone. Common messaging apps (SMS, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Slack). Social media apps (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok). email (Though an average stock email app is probably sufficient). Google Apps (gmail, google maps, etc..). Navigation (google maps is sufficient for most) Probably some set of games. I suspect the real viable option is being able to run Android apps natively without any special configuration.
    - 29083011397778 5y ago
      If that's the bar, then mobile Linux is simultaneously very fucking far, and dramatically closer than most people might think. As far as messaging apps, they're all technically there - the best kind of there for the crowd that this would interest. Spinning up a Matrix server means maybe a days work for this crowd, which allows (and I currently use it for) Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram, and more. Even better, due to constant improvements by Matrix, the server is only getting lighter and your options more varied with things like Construct [0]. Email is there - one only really needs to ensure geary is set to scale to the phone screen. As far as gMail, I'd question what the overlap is between "Privacy conscious enough to use a Pinephone" and "Uses gMail instead of anything IMAP". That only leaves navigation and social media. For the former, I've used the mobile site in-browser on my Android phone that the Google Maps app was too heavy for. And for both on the Pinephone, especially the pro, Waydroid [1] is getting closer to closing the gap. To be honest, I could see it being mainstream for geeks within two years. Though that's unlikely what you meant by mainstream - which I think we can agree is several more years away, if ever. [0] https://github.com/matrix-construct/construct https://github.com/matrix-construct/construct [1] https://github.com/waydroid/waydroid https://github.com/waydroid/waydroid
      - RDaneel0livaw 5y ago
        Wait a sec, are you telling me there's a way for me to participate in whatsapp conversations without actually having whatsapp installed on my phone? I am currently forced to use whatsapp by my work for supporting overseas live events, but I absolutely hate having anything related to facebook installed on my phone. Until now I just put up with it because I didn't know there was an alternative. Can you help me understand how this works?
        29083011397778 5y ago
        Sorry, I'm not sure I should have gotten your hopes up like that: First and foremost, calling does not work. Hosting a Matrix server [0], configuring the bridge [1], then running the client [2] anywhere you are will allow you to send and receive Whatsapp messages, status updates, pictures, videos, etc. It's currently limited to using the WebUI - this means one is limited to the functions available through Whatsapp Web. This may, someday, possibly, change with Whatsapps new multi-device implementation, but I'd advise taking it for what it is instead of hoping it'll happen any time soon. All that said, I've been using it for some time now. It's gotten much more stable, and I can recommend it for what it is. [0] https://matrix-org.github.io/synapse/latest/setup/installation.html https://matrix-org.github.io/synapse/latest/setup/installati... [1] https://matrix.org/bridges/ https://matrix.org/bridges/ [2] https://matrix.org/clients/ https://matrix.org/clients/
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- db579 5y ago
  Really depends how you define the task doesn't it? If it's "I have the ability to message other people" there's plenty of ways to accomplish that on this device. If you define the task as "I need to message other people specifically on a Google/Apple messenger application", well then it's always going to be out of Pine64s hands to some extent?
  - CubsFan1060 5y ago
    How about "I need to message other people in a way that doesn't make everyone I know have to change the current way they do things". I wasn't necessarily referring to iMessage. But, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Slack. To be fair, I've also failed to find a list of supported apps. The best I found was: https://www.reddit.com/r/PINE64official/comments/okjeuk/apps_for_pinephone/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PINE64official/comments/okjeuk/apps...
    - johnny53169 5y ago
      > How about "I need to message other people in a way that doesn't make everyone I know have to change the current way they do things". Isn't that the exact purpose of those walled gardens, so it'd be hard to change platforms?
    - fsflover 5y ago
      Telegram is working flawlessly on my Pinephone with Mobian.
- EastOfTruth 5y ago
  > banking applications I'd rather use the web app, it gives them less information about me

smallerfish 5y ago

Theoretically you can run those apps via anbox. I've tested whatsapp via anbox on my desktop ubuntu install at least, and it works fine. Remains to be seen how well it'll work on this upgraded hardware, and I'm sure they're being conservative because of that.

betwixthewires 5y ago
There's also this somewhat new project called waydroid that runs android applications closer to the metal than an emulator would. https://waydro.id/ https://waydro.id/
- chayleaf 5y ago
  waydroid is an anbox fork afaik

thepete2 5y ago

I mean, couldn't you dual-boot android on this thing? Or is the SoC not supported?

officeplant 5y ago
Android is supported on some Rockchip SBC's out there. I imagine the problem would be getting modem support working.

MatthiasPortzel 5y ago

I think there's a difference between "depend on" and "use." Most everyone that currently has an iPhone or Android is going to use those features. But for every Youtube video that I watch on my phone, I watch many more on my computer. I use my phone for browsing HN and Twitter, taking pictures, checking my email, and of course getting texts. I have a banking app installed, but that's not the reason that I have a phone. I would have to post to Instagram from my computer, but other than that, I could use a PinePhone. Unfortunately, it looks like the only positive of the PinePhone right now is "free software." But my point is that it's possible for PinePhone to convince me by adding brand new features—they don't necessarily have to support every iPhone app to win users over.

aiilns 5y ago
A bit irrelevant, but I don't think you can post to Instagram from your computer, got to use the app.
- KeeganS 5y ago
  It used to be that you could use developer tools to emulate a smartphone and be redirected to the mobile site, which would let you post.
  - James-Livesey 5y ago
    It seems that you can still post from the web version of Instagram on mobile (just tested it now on Android Chrome) — I should imagine that it still works in the DevTools mobile emulator (though you do have to refresh the page). Using the Instagram PWA may be a viable way of using Instagram on mobile Linux. Still can't seem to post stories on the PWA, though.

reginold 5y ago

This is the reality today. The device is still developer-only. I just bought one thinking I could ditch my iPhone -- not yet. It's hard knowing that there are no good options besides Android and iOS. I'm aware of de-Googled Android versions but those are less appealing given the Google base. We need an open source solution.

djent 5y ago

That's the vendor lock-in to the walled garden app stores. It works, and if you want to break the cycle, you need something new.