4 ms·

It's not fears, it's the fact that the system is used for tracking people and the Facepay capability looks like a simple cover for the true purpose of the syste

by fuoqi 5y ago

It's not fears, it's the fact that the system is used for tracking people and the Facepay capability looks like a simple cover for the true purpose of the system: massive scale surveillance. The authorities claim that they have apprehended more than 900 suspected criminals since the last September with the system help. You can imagine how easy it would be to add additional "features", if they are not in operation already.

dane-pgp 5y ago
> how easy it would be to add additional "features" I suspect the next big milestone planned is to link it to a "social credit" score, i.e. an opaque system of extra-judicial punishment where the government can hide behind an official excuse of "the AI decided" every time a wrong-thinker complains about their oppression.
- tryauuum 5y ago
  I don't believe in capabilities of russian government IT services to design such a thing, to be honest
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago
  I think that you can "sell" catching criminals to Russians, but I don't think the population will accept the social credit system.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > the next big milestone planned is to link it to a "social credit" score, i.e. an opaque system of extra-judicial punishment where the government can hide behind an official excuse of "the AI decided" every time a wrong-thinker complains about their oppression Moscow has no qualms about overtly oppressing its opposition. What advantage does the ambiguity of such a system bring to the table? If anything, Putin's flamboyant campaign of pursuing dissidents puts as much emphasis on messaging as physical outcome. Softening the message--if you oppose the Kremlin, it will hurt you--is counterproductive.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    Every system of overt oppression has its limits, no matter how seemly compliant the population is or how iron fisted the current regime may be. The displays you mention are just that, displays. For population scale control you really do need to be more subtle and pervasive. Which is what makes this type of surveillance so much more insidious.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    It would be quite expensive for the Russian government to poison everyone who ever went to a protest, or who socialised with the wrong sort of people. Also, if it's cheap enough, the government can apply low-level incentives/nudges at the top of the dissent "recruitment funnel" as well as high-level high-profile actions against the few brave people who make it all the way to becoming leaders of these groups.
kgeist 5y ago
If the government wants to apprehend you, a face recognition system in the metro is the least of your concerns. They will get you anyway, sooner or later. It can only make the life of FSB easier, so they can learn about your habits for blackmail etc. by just looking at some footage downloaded from a server, instead of actually putting some effort

by fuoqi 5y ago

dane-pgp 5y ago

> how easy it would be to add additional "features" I suspect the next big milestone planned is to link it to a "social credit" score, i.e. an opaque system of extra-judicial punishment where the government can hide behind an official excuse of "the AI decided" every time a wrong-thinker complains about their oppression.

tryauuum 5y ago
I don't believe in capabilities of russian government IT services to design such a thing, to be honest
LudwigNagasena 5y ago
I think that you can "sell" catching criminals to Russians, but I don't think the population will accept the social credit system.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> the next big milestone planned is to link it to a "social credit" score, i.e. an opaque system of extra-judicial punishment where the government can hide behind an official excuse of "the AI decided" every time a wrong-thinker complains about their oppression Moscow has no qualms about overtly oppressing its opposition. What advantage does the ambiguity of such a system bring to the table? If anything, Putin's flamboyant campaign of pursuing dissidents puts as much emphasis on messaging as physical outcome. Softening the message--if you oppose the Kremlin, it will hurt you--is counterproductive.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  Every system of overt oppression has its limits, no matter how seemly compliant the population is or how iron fisted the current regime may be. The displays you mention are just that, displays. For population scale control you really do need to be more subtle and pervasive. Which is what makes this type of surveillance so much more insidious.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  It would be quite expensive for the Russian government to poison everyone who ever went to a protest, or who socialised with the wrong sort of people. Also, if it's cheap enough, the government can apply low-level incentives/nudges at the top of the dissent "recruitment funnel" as well as high-level high-profile actions against the few brave people who make it all the way to becoming leaders of these groups.

kgeist 5y ago

If the government wants to apprehend you, a face recognition system in the metro is the least of your concerns. They will get you anyway, sooner or later. It can only make the life of FSB easier, so they can learn about your habits for blackmail etc. by just looking at some footage downloaded from a server, instead of actually putting some effort