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Eastern philosophy isn't impenetrable, and people who cannot penetrate it aren't hampered by cultural difference. Even for natives of those cultures, penetrati
by joeberon 5y ago
Eastern philosophy isn't impenetrable, and people who cannot penetrate it aren't hampered by cultural difference.
Even for natives of those cultures, penetrating that philosophy often takes years of spiritual practise and training. The reason is that it isn't about ideas, it's an actual body-mind training and transformation of being. It isn't something you just sit and talk about and discuss, although it can include that, but also it must come with actual implementation to occur.
That's the main difference I've noticed between western philosophy and eastern philosophy which makes them difficult to integrate. The former is almost always understood by the experience of so-called "ordinary beings" and communicated in terms of intellectual arguments, whereas the latter cannot really be understood unless you actually physically and spiritually transform your very being.
For example, I used to practise Soto Zen, and Dogen's philosophical writings are very popular there. Western philosophers, or just general non-practitioners, absolutely bash their heads against his writing, it's just so difficult to wrangle and there's no connection. In Soto Zen we understand it by sitting zazen (seated meditation). Literally, the only way I know to understand it is by doing meditation practise. Then next time you read it and you have a deep connection with it that you can't explain in a way that someone who hasn't had that connection would understand. Western philosophy seems to not be compatible with those kinds of transformations. If it cannot be explained in a way that is somehow independent of the observer's own practise, then it is not considered rigorous, but also such a thing is impossible when talking, for example, about Zen.
- ganzuul 5y agoI did use the qualifier 'almost'... and I don't see you actually disagreeing with what I meant. There was something called Eckhart Seminar Training or something which took people through decades of training in the more cumbersome system in a week. Similarly, a lot of cultural impedance has been removed in the teachings of Western sages. Teachings need to be updated and modernized as we progress as society.
- joeberon 5y ago> Teachings need to be updated and modernized as we progress as society. I don't think there's any way to do that without understanding them, but to understand them fully you basically have to become a Buddha...so it is not clear how to do this without removing essential parts of the teachings, as are often done when surgically transposing bits of eastern philosophy into the west
- ganzuul 5y agoWhat Westerners need to be taught is different from the needs of other cultures. Seekers here are seldom lacking in their discernment, but very lacking in their empathy.
- joeberon 5y agoI haven't experienced that the teachings need to change personally, but yes the emphasis needs to. Unfortunately westerners are being fed teachings that are more like "this meditation will make you experience a sober LSD trip" and "this one will cure your depression" and "this will give you insight into the nature of reality", because that's what westerners want. But what they actually need is teachings on compassion, loving kindness, etc, which they are in no way interested in. Ultimately you cannot have one without the other. There are no eastern spiritual paths that don't integrate both insight and compassion.
- ganzuul 5y agoAFAIK the ads don't really correspond to the content. Regardless if you are looking for weight loss, business success, or liberation, you come into contact with the same teachings because it does all of the above. It brings people in with concepts they are familiar with.
- joeberon 5y agoYeah I think you have to misrepresent to get people in, but personally I don't like that. I would rather we don't lie about it and Buddhism (for example) dies than we misrepresent it.