4 ms·

Using baseball as a metaphor for agile just feels wrong and if I were uncharitable I would even call it a self-own. Baseball is a slow-paced, ceremonious game w

Using baseball as a metaphor for agile just feels wrong and if I were uncharitable I would even call it a self-own. Baseball is a slow-paced, ceremonious game with an inch-thick rule book and a deep layer of historical cruft, does that sound like agile to you?

DeathArrow 5y ago
Idk, that. At work, half of time we do real work, half of time we do stupid AGILE ceremonies and POKR because our CEO is accustomed with all the trendy managing methodologies. He likes to change them when he learns about new stuff. Even if we loose time with lots of stupid things we are required to do the same work as if we had the whole period free. So, the code quality has to suffer and tech debt is accumulating.
baud147258 5y ago
> slow-paced, ceremonious game with an inch-thick rule book and a deep layer of historical cruft, does that sound like agile to you? at least with how "agile" is set up at work (with SCRUM and SAFE (scale agile framework)), yes
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  As bad as both scrum and safe are, they’re miles better than the old waterfall methodology. At least with corporate agile you usually ship something.
  - paulmooreparks 5y ago
    I don't really get this "waterfall" boogeyman. I started programming professionally in 1989, and I delivered a LOT of software for a few different companies before the Agile obsession hit. I had a quite a lot of freedom to modify the process depending on what the project called for. There were fewer corporate overlords worrying about whether I stuck to this or that process. There were certainly no Agile Coaches making sure I followed all the ceremonies of the "Agile Process" (that's a quote) or making sure I used story points instead of calendar time in my estimates. Making software is a lot less fun these days than in the "bad old days" of the alleged waterfall process.
    - g051051 5y ago
      Yes! I never encountered any of the problems that the so-called "Agile" manifesto and the absurd processes that accreted around it. The current trend just seems amateurish to me, compared to what it strives to replace.
makeitdouble 5y ago
Slow the working pace ? Ceremonies ? Have countless books written about the rules to follow ? Seem to check all the boxes to me. For the historical cruft we’re getting there, I’m sure there’s teams mandating to stand during stand-up even during remote sessions.
lostcolony 5y ago
"Baseball is a slow-paced, ceremonious game with an inch-thick rule book and a deep layer of historical cruft, does that sound like agile to you?" Sounds like agile methodologies; doesn't sound like agile manifesto. Which is kinda the point. The manifesto is a few salient points and heuristics that devs at the time found effective for delivering working software (and which, I would contend, still hold). The methodologies that have arisen are overly prescriptive, adopted without any eye to the culture, and frequently lead to outcomes no better than what they're intended to replace.
LeifCarrotson 5y ago
We played Calvinball [1] instead. It was certainly fun, but not particularly profitable. https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/05/27 https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/05/27

DeathArrow 5y ago

Idk, that. At work, half of time we do real work, half of time we do stupid AGILE ceremonies and POKR because our CEO is accustomed with all the trendy managing methodologies. He likes to change them when he learns about new stuff. Even if we loose time with lots of stupid things we are required to do the same work as if we had the whole period free. So, the code quality has to suffer and tech debt is accumulating.

baud147258 5y ago

> slow-paced, ceremonious game with an inch-thick rule book and a deep layer of historical cruft, does that sound like agile to you? at least with how "agile" is set up at work (with SCRUM and SAFE (scale agile framework)), yes

wayoutthere 5y ago
As bad as both scrum and safe are, they’re miles better than the old waterfall methodology. At least with corporate agile you usually ship something.
- paulmooreparks 5y ago
  I don't really get this "waterfall" boogeyman. I started programming professionally in 1989, and I delivered a LOT of software for a few different companies before the Agile obsession hit. I had a quite a lot of freedom to modify the process depending on what the project called for. There were fewer corporate overlords worrying about whether I stuck to this or that process. There were certainly no Agile Coaches making sure I followed all the ceremonies of the "Agile Process" (that's a quote) or making sure I used story points instead of calendar time in my estimates. Making software is a lot less fun these days than in the "bad old days" of the alleged waterfall process.
  - g051051 5y ago
    Yes! I never encountered any of the problems that the so-called "Agile" manifesto and the absurd processes that accreted around it. The current trend just seems amateurish to me, compared to what it strives to replace.

makeitdouble 5y ago

Slow the working pace ? Ceremonies ? Have countless books written about the rules to follow ? Seem to check all the boxes to me. For the historical cruft we’re getting there, I’m sure there’s teams mandating to stand during stand-up even during remote sessions.

lostcolony 5y ago

"Baseball is a slow-paced, ceremonious game with an inch-thick rule book and a deep layer of historical cruft, does that sound like agile to you?" Sounds like agile methodologies; doesn't sound like agile manifesto. Which is kinda the point. The manifesto is a few salient points and heuristics that devs at the time found effective for delivering working software (and which, I would contend, still hold). The methodologies that have arisen are overly prescriptive, adopted without any eye to the culture, and frequently lead to outcomes no better than what they're intended to replace.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago

We played Calvinball [1] instead. It was certainly fun, but not particularly profitable. https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/05/27 https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/05/27