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That makes sense; though to be clear, you're essentially saying that apt isn't appropriate for 3rd party packages. And that: - The question of which files go i
by josephg 5y ago
That makes sense; though to be clear, you're essentially saying that apt isn't appropriate for 3rd party packages. And that:
- The question of which files go in which directories in the system is a question for canonical (or whoever) to decide. Not end users or 3rd party developers
- The namespace of apt package names is special, and 3rd party / external dpkgs shouldn't add anything into it
I think this stance is entirely reasonable. Its essentially what windows and macos both do (and to increasing degrees with each version). But its a pity its taken the current apt packaging disaster to realise it. Its really convenient for users to have a package manager, and for 3rd party developers be able to write software for it. And these problems seem solvable:
- Namespace all 3rd party packages. Eg, @apple/foundationdb-server (as distinct from @canonical/git)
- Use overlayfs or something to essentially make /usr, /usr/bin, etc read only by normal processes. If these paths were only writable by system packages, the whole system would be much more predictable (and verifyable) - since that filesystem would only - could only contain a subset of the files in apt.
I get that flatpak and snap are both attempts to replace apt. But its a pity they're needed. I'm enjoying mint, but if I ever rebuild this machine I'm going to give nix a try.
- md8z 5y agoYes to all of the above. Although namespacing is not enough, the packages need to be built in a specific way so that they don't put files in any system locations. This isn't anything specific to Ubuntu, this is just how Debian works. If you want to do things "the right way" you're supposed to submit your packages upstream and be patient. This is not exactly a new problem, it's why Docker is popular, it's why Fedora Silverblue and NixOS exist. It's just not done on the OS level in Debian because in some ways it doesn't really need to be.