5 ms·

This reminds me of the time that Steve Ballmer did an Q&A with Microsoft interns saying basically that he's happy everyone in China pirates Windows because then

This reminds me of the time that Steve Ballmer did an Q&A with Microsoft interns saying basically that he's happy everyone in China pirates Windows because then Microsoft sets the standard.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Reminds me of the time when the president of Romania told Bill Gates to his face that the Romanian IT industry has grown to where it is today thanks to everyone pirating Windows.[1] I'm still wondering what went through Bill's head hearing that. [1]https://www.wired.com/2007/02/romanian-presid/ https://www.wired.com/2007/02/romanian-presid/
- mmastrac 5y ago
  "This will be a massive licensing stream in the future"
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Do you really think "old" Microsoft thought that far into the future for this back then? This was before the days of software becoming walled-garden lock-in subscription-ware; when quarterly revenue relied solely on the number of licenses sold and pirated licenses were seen as lost revenue. I assumed they just though that if everyone had only legit copies, then Microsoft's revenues would quintuple overnight effectively turning Bill Gates into the world's richest man. Oh wait, he already was the world's richest man at that time. Nevermind. Then again, people mostly pirated it because they couldn't afford it, so a strong piracy-free DRM solution would have probably pushed everyone to Linux right off the bat (nobody in Eastern Europe could afford Macs at the time), causing Microsoft's market share to fall off a cliff and not be the 400 pound gorilla it is today.
    - achow 5y ago
      Those days Linux was not a viable options for consumers. Microsoft was not in this alone (piracy in eastern part of the world), even companies like Adobe was in same situation and Adobe perhaps was more affected as they were smaller and less diversified. But for them piracy in China, India, Romania et al. was not a problem, as they knew it increases user base and they can monetize that in corporates. The same people who pirate at home and school will pay for the license when they are in office (bigger ones). Piracy was a training and demand generation channel.
      - ashwagary 5y ago
        Quite funny that many of the child-pirates work in Redmond and Bellevue now.
      - mschuster91 5y ago
        > even companies like Adobe was in same situation and Adobe perhaps was more affected as they were smaller and less diversified. Adobe didn't care about piracy for a long time. Up until CS4 a simple keygen was sufficient, up until CS6 you'd need to null-route a couple Adobe hosts in your /etc/hosts. The result was that lots of young students grew up with Adobe tooling - Photoshop, Premiere, Dreamweaver, Flash - and virtually set the standard for the media industry once they entered the work force.
    - numpad0 5y ago
      Pirated Windows also ensures competitors are semi-permanently extinguished. 2007 is only third year for Ubuntu, and GNU/Linux is still the only more-than-semi-viable alternative for PC/AT other than Windows almost 15 years later.
    - laumars 5y ago
      > Do you really think "old" Microsoft thought that far into the future for this back then? Yes. - they killed Netscape in the 90s because they realised owning the web browser market meant locking people into Windows - they ran the Xbox division for years at a loss knowing it would eventually pay out - they bailed out Apple financially knowing that a long term competitor to Windows meant a reduced likelihood of monopoly violations - they had a long term strategy attacking Linux (even going so far as to call it “communism”) before eventually caving and public ally supporting FOSS - the whole long term “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish” strategy is synonymous with old Microsoft. Eg Lotus Office comparability to sell MS Office licenses, then dropping support when MS Office became dominant. - Windows 2000 and Me were never intended as long term strategies but instead as a gateway into merging the NT and 9x line of operating systems. I could go on with examples from their dealings with IBM, Apple, Dr DOS, MSN and so on and so forth but I have two screaming kids I need to deal with. However you should get the idea
- r00fus 5y ago
  "World domination, one step at a time"
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- beezischillin 5y ago
  I don’t really think he was worried, they sell endless amounts of licenses to the government. In Hungary Ballmer got eggs thrown at him by an OSS activist for that exact reason in 08.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    I feel like a national government would be the last org to need to worry about licensing software, given lawsuits won’t do much and nobody’s going to start a war over it.
    - wesleywt 5y ago
      Governments do business with foreign companies and governments.
- ddalex 5y ago
  Imagine where Romania would be if windows licencing cops would do their jobs and everyone would be forced off to Linux
- ghego1 5y ago
  Most likely, he already knew
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
qwerty456127 5y ago
Never heard about Steve Ballmer saying this but I always believed this was (or became at some point) the plan. 100% of SOHO users pirated MS DOS, Windows and Office in Eastern Europe before broadband Internet became widely available. Then legal pressure on small business started so they began buying licenses as Windows and Office have already became the standard. What I never understood though is why did Microsoft (or anybody else) invest in all this activation bullshit anyway. The only things working always were reasonably affordable pricing of legal copies, legal enforcement risk coming from the local police and the value of commercial support. All the software mechanisms of licensing enforcement have always been cracked and stopped no one. If I were to release commercial software I would only put a simple (no actual anti-crack protection at all) offline serial check to stop the most stupid and unmotivated people, everyone else will get a crack (which will inevitably emerge if the app actually is of any value) anyway.
- Cpoll 5y ago
  > What I never understood though is why did Microsoft (or anybody else) invest in all this activation bullshit anyway. I relate this to the adage "locks are to keep honest people honest." Similarly, bypassing a valid license has to be just hard enough that people have time to think about what they're doing. To push the metaphor a bit further, someone is more likely to try the credit card trick to shim a door open (type in a fake or shared serial key) than acquire lockpicking tools (download a crack). There's probably some convenience factor there as well...
  - qwerty456127 5y ago
    > someone is more likely to try the credit card trick to shim a door open (type in a fake or shared serial key) than acquire lockpicking tools (download a crack). In theory this sounds reasonable but in reality - no, it's no difference. Serial, keygen, crack - it's all just a minor, negligible variation of the ritual people do when they want an app but are not going to pay for it (because from the perspective of an eastern user all the big apps genuinely look exorbitantly overpriced).

This reminds me of the time that Steve Ballmer did an Q&A with Microsoft interns saying basically that he's happy everyone in China pirates Windows because then Microsoft sets the standard.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

Reminds me of the time when the president of Romania told Bill Gates to his face that the Romanian IT industry has grown to where it is today thanks to everyone pirating Windows.[1] I'm still wondering what went through Bill's head hearing that. [1]https://www.wired.com/2007/02/romanian-presid/ https://www.wired.com/2007/02/romanian-presid/

mmastrac 5y ago
"This will be a massive licensing stream in the future"
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Do you really think "old" Microsoft thought that far into the future for this back then? This was before the days of software becoming walled-garden lock-in subscription-ware; when quarterly revenue relied solely on the number of licenses sold and pirated licenses were seen as lost revenue. I assumed they just though that if everyone had only legit copies, then Microsoft's revenues would quintuple overnight effectively turning Bill Gates into the world's richest man. Oh wait, he already was the world's richest man at that time. Nevermind. Then again, people mostly pirated it because they couldn't afford it, so a strong piracy-free DRM solution would have probably pushed everyone to Linux right off the bat (nobody in Eastern Europe could afford Macs at the time), causing Microsoft's market share to fall off a cliff and not be the 400 pound gorilla it is today.
  - achow 5y ago
    Those days Linux was not a viable options for consumers. Microsoft was not in this alone (piracy in eastern part of the world), even companies like Adobe was in same situation and Adobe perhaps was more affected as they were smaller and less diversified. But for them piracy in China, India, Romania et al. was not a problem, as they knew it increases user base and they can monetize that in corporates. The same people who pirate at home and school will pay for the license when they are in office (bigger ones). Piracy was a training and demand generation channel.
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      Quite funny that many of the child-pirates work in Redmond and Bellevue now.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      > even companies like Adobe was in same situation and Adobe perhaps was more affected as they were smaller and less diversified. Adobe didn't care about piracy for a long time. Up until CS4 a simple keygen was sufficient, up until CS6 you'd need to null-route a couple Adobe hosts in your /etc/hosts. The result was that lots of young students grew up with Adobe tooling - Photoshop, Premiere, Dreamweaver, Flash - and virtually set the standard for the media industry once they entered the work force.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    Pirated Windows also ensures competitors are semi-permanently extinguished. 2007 is only third year for Ubuntu, and GNU/Linux is still the only more-than-semi-viable alternative for PC/AT other than Windows almost 15 years later.
  - laumars 5y ago
    > Do you really think "old" Microsoft thought that far into the future for this back then? Yes. - they killed Netscape in the 90s because they realised owning the web browser market meant locking people into Windows - they ran the Xbox division for years at a loss knowing it would eventually pay out - they bailed out Apple financially knowing that a long term competitor to Windows meant a reduced likelihood of monopoly violations - they had a long term strategy attacking Linux (even going so far as to call it “communism”) before eventually caving and public ally supporting FOSS - the whole long term “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish” strategy is synonymous with old Microsoft. Eg Lotus Office comparability to sell MS Office licenses, then dropping support when MS Office became dominant. - Windows 2000 and Me were never intended as long term strategies but instead as a gateway into merging the NT and 9x line of operating systems. I could go on with examples from their dealings with IBM, Apple, Dr DOS, MSN and so on and so forth but I have two screaming kids I need to deal with. However you should get the idea
r00fus 5y ago
"World domination, one step at a time"
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
beezischillin 5y ago
I don’t really think he was worried, they sell endless amounts of licenses to the government. In Hungary Ballmer got eggs thrown at him by an OSS activist for that exact reason in 08.
- judge2020 5y ago
  I feel like a national government would be the last org to need to worry about licensing software, given lawsuits won’t do much and nobody’s going to start a war over it.
  - wesleywt 5y ago
    Governments do business with foreign companies and governments.
ddalex 5y ago
Imagine where Romania would be if windows licencing cops would do their jobs and everyone would be forced off to Linux
ghego1 5y ago
Most likely, he already knew

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

qwerty456127 5y ago

Never heard about Steve Ballmer saying this but I always believed this was (or became at some point) the plan. 100% of SOHO users pirated MS DOS, Windows and Office in Eastern Europe before broadband Internet became widely available. Then legal pressure on small business started so they began buying licenses as Windows and Office have already became the standard. What I never understood though is why did Microsoft (or anybody else) invest in all this activation bullshit anyway. The only things working always were reasonably affordable pricing of legal copies, legal enforcement risk coming from the local police and the value of commercial support. All the software mechanisms of licensing enforcement have always been cracked and stopped no one. If I were to release commercial software I would only put a simple (no actual anti-crack protection at all) offline serial check to stop the most stupid and unmotivated people, everyone else will get a crack (which will inevitably emerge if the app actually is of any value) anyway.

Cpoll 5y ago
> What I never understood though is why did Microsoft (or anybody else) invest in all this activation bullshit anyway. I relate this to the adage "locks are to keep honest people honest." Similarly, bypassing a valid license has to be just hard enough that people have time to think about what they're doing. To push the metaphor a bit further, someone is more likely to try the credit card trick to shim a door open (type in a fake or shared serial key) than acquire lockpicking tools (download a crack). There's probably some convenience factor there as well...
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  > someone is more likely to try the credit card trick to shim a door open (type in a fake or shared serial key) than acquire lockpicking tools (download a crack). In theory this sounds reasonable but in reality - no, it's no difference. Serial, keygen, crack - it's all just a minor, negligible variation of the ritual people do when they want an app but are not going to pay for it (because from the perspective of an eastern user all the big apps genuinely look exorbitantly overpriced).