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Tesla assuming the financial liability for their cars may be what the self-driving industry needs for faster adoption. One of the big questions with self drivi

Tesla assuming the financial liability for their cars may be what the self-driving industry needs for faster adoption. One of the big questions with self driving cars is "who is at fault" and if Tesla the corp defacto volunteers by underwriting the liability, then that may pave the way for laws/policy aimed around the car manufacturers holding the blame.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
That's not what this is. This is similar to what legacy auto insurers use to price risk using a mobile phone app or a telemetry device to gather data about your driving habits [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. Tesla's primary use case was risk rating drivers for FSD beta access, but the secondary use case (or more likely, an adjacent use case with delayed deployment, never let a code path go to waste) is improving risk rating their insurance customers (good drivers pay less for insurance than bad drivers). The differentiator here is that the functionality is built into the vehicle natively, and when on Autopilot, those miles are not included in your scoring (which aligns your interests with Tesla’s; they’re incentivized to make Autopilot safe and you’re incentivized to use it). [1] https://www.statefarm.com/customer-care/download-mobile-apps/drive-safe-and-save-mobile https://www.statefarm.com/customer-care/download-mobile-apps... [2] https://www.usaa.com/insurance/safedriving https://www.usaa.com/insurance/safedriving [3] https://www.amfam.com/insurance/car/knowyourdrive https://www.amfam.com/insurance/car/knowyourdrive [4] https://www.allstate.com/drive-wise.aspx https://www.allstate.com/drive-wise.aspx [5] https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/snapshot-details/ https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/snapshot... (disclosure: Tesla owner)
kjksf 5y ago
This is not what it is. It's a regular insurance. Tesla isn't taking liability any more than Geico does. When robotaxis happen, regardless of who makes them, the maker and/or operator will be liable for accidents. There will be no big question. Nothing else makes sense and probably nothing else could possibly be legal. You can't say "you can go to sleep in a car but if it gets in an accident you'll pay for it".
- ausudhz 5y ago
  That's why Tesla says you shouldn't use their autopilot while sleeping. They don't want be liable
smt88 5y ago
I think you're assuming too much benevolence from Tesla here. First of all, I think the way "FSD" is disclaimed (don't take your hands off the wheel, don't stop looking at the road) is going to mean that Tesla has a much easier time denying claims than a traditional insurance company. If I'm, say, State Farm, and I'm insuring a Tesla that gets into an accident, I may not be able to prove that the driver was using "FSD" and/or whether they were holding the wheel, paying attention, etc. Tesla, on the other hand, can get this data instantly and deny the claim based on very minor deviations from the "FSD" instructions.
pengaru 5y ago
Tesla controlling the data potentially proving their guilt (and liability as insurer of the guilty) is an obviously undesirable conflict of interests. We already see this sort of conflict of interests in Kaiser Permanente health insurance and their hospitals, it's a huge problem.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

That's not what this is. This is similar to what legacy auto insurers use to price risk using a mobile phone app or a telemetry device to gather data about your driving habits [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. Tesla's primary use case was risk rating drivers for FSD beta access, but the secondary use case (or more likely, an adjacent use case with delayed deployment, never let a code path go to waste) is improving risk rating their insurance customers (good drivers pay less for insurance than bad drivers). The differentiator here is that the functionality is built into the vehicle natively, and when on Autopilot, those miles are not included in your scoring (which aligns your interests with Tesla’s; they’re incentivized to make Autopilot safe and you’re incentivized to use it). [1] https://www.statefarm.com/customer-care/download-mobile-apps/drive-safe-and-save-mobile https://www.statefarm.com/customer-care/download-mobile-apps... [2] https://www.usaa.com/insurance/safedriving https://www.usaa.com/insurance/safedriving [3] https://www.amfam.com/insurance/car/knowyourdrive https://www.amfam.com/insurance/car/knowyourdrive [4] https://www.allstate.com/drive-wise.aspx https://www.allstate.com/drive-wise.aspx [5] https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/snapshot-details/ https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/snapshot... (disclosure: Tesla owner)

kjksf 5y ago

This is not what it is. It's a regular insurance. Tesla isn't taking liability any more than Geico does. When robotaxis happen, regardless of who makes them, the maker and/or operator will be liable for accidents. There will be no big question. Nothing else makes sense and probably nothing else could possibly be legal. You can't say "you can go to sleep in a car but if it gets in an accident you'll pay for it".

ausudhz 5y ago
That's why Tesla says you shouldn't use their autopilot while sleeping. They don't want be liable

smt88 5y ago

I think you're assuming too much benevolence from Tesla here. First of all, I think the way "FSD" is disclaimed (don't take your hands off the wheel, don't stop looking at the road) is going to mean that Tesla has a much easier time denying claims than a traditional insurance company. If I'm, say, State Farm, and I'm insuring a Tesla that gets into an accident, I may not be able to prove that the driver was using "FSD" and/or whether they were holding the wheel, paying attention, etc. Tesla, on the other hand, can get this data instantly and deny the claim based on very minor deviations from the "FSD" instructions.

pengaru 5y ago

Tesla controlling the data potentially proving their guilt (and liability as insurer of the guilty) is an obviously undesirable conflict of interests. We already see this sort of conflict of interests in Kaiser Permanente health insurance and their hospitals, it's a huge problem.