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I meant it in the sense of the long now. 53 years ago isn't long ago in the arc of human history. There are people alive who grew up where they grew up or live

by _6hmp 5y ago

I meant it in the sense of the long now. 53 years ago isn't long ago in the arc of human history. There are people alive who grew up where they grew up or live where they live because of it. The rest of your post doesn't merit a response as it has nothing to do with what I wrote.

jlawson 5y ago
"The long now" isn't the right model for how humans actually live in the world. In reality, people find their level very quickly and historical circumstances don't hold people down for long. Lots of examples: -Vietnamese boat people arrived in the mid-70's with nothing. They quickly became successful and still are. -Jews lost so much in WW2, including half their families. They quickly became successful after the war and still are. They didn't sit around in ghettos forever. -Nigerian immigrants to America often come with little wealth and yet do better than American whites economically. -Iranian immigrants arrived after the 1979 revolution with nothing. Now they do very well - better than average whites. If "the long now" was real, none of these would be possible and all immigrant groups who arrived poor in the last 50 years would still be poor. This is actually a really important thing to learn because it's critical in your mental model of the world. You think some event 50+ years ago will keep families in poverty for literal multiple generations - it's not true at all. Families rise and fall much much quicker than this. If someone is in poverty that long (in the context of a somewhat free society) it is because of internal issues, not circumstances. Society at large treats slave-descended blacks no worse than African-immigrant blacks (or other nonwhite immigrants); the difference in outcomes comes from their own internal issues. The sooner we can acknowledge the actual source the problem the sooner we can make progress on solving it.

by _6hmp 5y ago

jlawson 5y ago

"The long now" isn't the right model for how humans actually live in the world. In reality, people find their level very quickly and historical circumstances don't hold people down for long. Lots of examples: -Vietnamese boat people arrived in the mid-70's with nothing. They quickly became successful and still are. -Jews lost so much in WW2, including half their families. They quickly became successful after the war and still are. They didn't sit around in ghettos forever. -Nigerian immigrants to America often come with little wealth and yet do better than American whites economically. -Iranian immigrants arrived after the 1979 revolution with nothing. Now they do very well - better than average whites. If "the long now" was real, none of these would be possible and all immigrant groups who arrived poor in the last 50 years would still be poor. This is actually a really important thing to learn because it's critical in your mental model of the world. You think some event 50+ years ago will keep families in poverty for literal multiple generations - it's not true at all. Families rise and fall much much quicker than this. If someone is in poverty that long (in the context of a somewhat free society) it is because of internal issues, not circumstances. Society at large treats slave-descended blacks no worse than African-immigrant blacks (or other nonwhite immigrants); the difference in outcomes comes from their own internal issues. The sooner we can acknowledge the actual source the problem the sooner we can make progress on solving it.