6 ms·

I do. They often start by restricting the right to exit and assembly of stereotyped groups.

by gfodor 5y ago

woodruffw 5y ago
"Oppressed" is usually the operative word, which anti-vaxxers are decidedly not. Substituting "stereotyped" shows your hand a little.
- gfodor 5y ago
  Search for “unvaccinated vs vaccinated cartoon” on google images and have a look. Remind you of anything?
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    > Remind you of anything? Sloppy metaphor? Seriously: what am I supposed to glean here?
    - gfodor 5y ago
      That stereotyping and scapegoating of the unvaccinated is occurring and is animating the support of increasingly oppressive policies against them. Many of whom have natural immunity and pose less risk than those vaccinated in early 2021.
      - woodruffw 5y ago
        > That stereotyping and scapegoating of the unvaccinated is occurring and is animating the support of increasingly oppressive policies against them. There is nothing oppressive about universal, free access to a safe vaccine. Seriously: have some perspective.
        gfodor 5y ago
        The oppression is being barred from travel, work, and many aspects of public life. If you strip away your opinions about the risk and benefits of vaccination and look at the people not vaccinated as a group agnotistically, they are being oppressed more and more each week, and many of them have better antibodies than the vaccinated at this point. What will you do if the government mandates you to take a drug for similar justifications one day, but you actually honestly do not think it is safe for you? Do you think this precedent even if we assume good intentions is a good slope to be eagerly sliding down? What if we find drug interactions or other correlated variables that harm people who take it, or evidence comes along that affect your decision but the government disagrees? How much do you trust the authorities to navigate this, and how much are you willing to give up to them if you are one day on the non-consensus side?
        woodruffw 5y ago
        > The oppression is being barred from travel, work, and many aspects of public life. I'm sorry, but you're not oppressed. You've decided not to take a free and effective vaccine, and society is going to make collective public health decisions whether you participate or not.
        gfodor 5y ago
        I’m pro-vax, anti-authoritarianism. I realize this is hard for a lot of people (like yourself?) but it really shouldn’t be.
        woodruffw 5y ago
        > I’m pro-vax, anti-authoritarianism. This is a bizarre (and uniquely contemporaneous and American) notion of "authoritarianism." We really are a country of new and strange ideas!
        gfodor 5y ago
        Not really. If you disagree, I dare you to burn your vaccination card and see how life is for you over the coming months. There are many people like me who do not like seeing what is going on and are fully vaccinated. We have read enough history and have seen the hatred forming towards people divided on political and cultural lines, as the state pushes the envelope of acceptable oppression as it always does. Authoritarianism only happens when enough people can form a “reasonable” argument justifying it, usually out of fear or hatred of others, not rationally. Given the lack of acceptance of natural immunity, rationality seems not a full explanation. Just because you think getting vaccinated is a good idea doesn’t mean you can ignore oppression around you towards those who are trying to defend their right to body autonomy. Besides, what if you are next?
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Proving that you're stupid by refusing to take a vaccine is not a stereotype.
- gfodor 5y ago
  Beautiful illustration of stereotyping.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    Just because you can spell "stereotyping" doesn't mean that you understand what the word means. There's no stereotyping when it comes to people who refuse a vaccine that is proven to be effective at reducing the symptoms of a life-altering or life-ending virus. They're stupid.
    - gfodor 5y ago
      Painting people with a broad brush as you are doing here is stereotyping and is also a sign of stupidity. There are a lot of sane reasons to not get the vaccine. I don’t personally agree with them in most cases (except avoiding it for now in children) - but many of these reasons are not rooted in stupidity but different priors on risk. You have revealed your own ignorance and arguably your own stupidity (given the stereotyping) in several ways here, though.
oblio 5y ago
Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority? This is it. It's not the government oppressing unvaccinated, it's us, the majority doing it, because we consider unvaccinated people irresponsible. But oblio, I hear you say, that's mean, that's not fair, it's not democracy. Yes it is, that's why modern democracies have constitutions that protect basic rights and minority rights. Basic rights apply for all but if unvaccinated basic rights (in this case the right to not be inconvenienced for a bit by vaccination) infringe majority basic rights (the right to life and long term wellbeing), frequently they don't apply. Plus unvaccinated people are not a valid minority. They're not a protected minority anywhere in the world. Thankfully being anti-science and antisocial is not a protected category anywhere in the world that I know of. What makes unvaccinated people smarter than ALL the rest of us? Do they think that we're all collectively and individually dumber than them? Their arrogance is astounding. They all think they're Galileo when 99.9999% are Bozo the Clown, or worse, shortsighted and maliciously selfish people.
- gfodor 5y ago
  Maybe think a bit harder on what it means to set the precedent if the government can bar you, as an adult, from all employment or travel based upon your willingness to take a drug or not. Or pick up a history book about what happens when an easily identified group of people (who, in this case, are typically stereotyped as being of a certain race, political party, and culture) start being blamed for things such as the deaths of children from a virus, and are stereotyped by the media and those in government as collectively selfish, ignorant, and the cause of all of our problems. Don't let your fear or contempt for others land you in the category of people that have led the charge on setting up systems that are eventually turned on them once the next group gets their hands on the reins. As far as being anti-science goes, the vaccine mandates which do not account for natural immunity or the date you got your vaccines are fundamentally anti-science.
  - oblio 5y ago
    > Maybe think a bit harder on what it means to set the precedent if the government can bar you, as an adult, from all employment or travel based upon your willingness to take a drug or not. Or pick up a history book about what happens when an easily identified group of people (who, in this case, are typically stereotyped as being of a certain race, political party, and culture) start being blamed for things such as the deaths of children from a virus, and are stereotyped by the media and those in government as collectively selfish, ignorant, and the cause of all of our problems. This is gross, it's basically an end to the dicussion. One is an immutable characteristic (being Jewish), the other one is a choice. Your comment either contains a huge fallacy, or more likely, considering your other comments, pushes an agenda. > As far as being anti-science goes, the vaccine mandates which do not account for natural immunity or the date you got your vaccines are fundamentally anti-science. Either way, goodbye! > As far as being anti-science goes, the vaccine mandates which do not account for natural immunity or the date you got your vaccines are fundamentally anti-science. In Europe at least the green passport also includes: * a recent test * proof of having had Covid But then again, I'm getting nowhere with this discussion and hopefully sane governments won't listen to people like you.

I do. They often start by restricting the right to exit and assembly of stereotyped groups.

by gfodor 5y ago

I do. They often start by restricting the right to exit and assembly of stereotyped groups.

"Oppressed" is usually the operative word, which anti-vaxxers are decidedly not. Substituting "stereotyped" shows your hand a little.

gfodor 5y ago
Search for “unvaccinated vs vaccinated cartoon” on google images and have a look. Remind you of anything?
- woodruffw 5y ago
  > Remind you of anything? Sloppy metaphor? Seriously: what am I supposed to glean here?
  - gfodor 5y ago
    That stereotyping and scapegoating of the unvaccinated is occurring and is animating the support of increasingly oppressive policies against them. Many of whom have natural immunity and pose less risk than those vaccinated in early 2021.
    - woodruffw 5y ago
      > That stereotyping and scapegoating of the unvaccinated is occurring and is animating the support of increasingly oppressive policies against them. There is nothing oppressive about universal, free access to a safe vaccine. Seriously: have some perspective.
      - gfodor 5y ago
        The oppression is being barred from travel, work, and many aspects of public life. If you strip away your opinions about the risk and benefits of vaccination and look at the people not vaccinated as a group agnotistically, they are being oppressed more and more each week, and many of them have better antibodies than the vaccinated at this point. What will you do if the government mandates you to take a drug for similar justifications one day, but you actually honestly do not think it is safe for you? Do you think this precedent even if we assume good intentions is a good slope to be eagerly sliding down? What if we find drug interactions or other correlated variables that harm people who take it, or evidence comes along that affect your decision but the government disagrees? How much do you trust the authorities to navigate this, and how much are you willing to give up to them if you are one day on the non-consensus side?
        woodruffw 5y ago
        > The oppression is being barred from travel, work, and many aspects of public life. I'm sorry, but you're not oppressed. You've decided not to take a free and effective vaccine, and society is going to make collective public health decisions whether you participate or not.
        gfodor 5y ago
        I’m pro-vax, anti-authoritarianism. I realize this is hard for a lot of people (like yourself?) but it really shouldn’t be.
        woodruffw 5y ago
        > I’m pro-vax, anti-authoritarianism. This is a bizarre (and uniquely contemporaneous and American) notion of "authoritarianism." We really are a country of new and strange ideas!
        gfodor 5y ago
        Not really. If you disagree, I dare you to burn your vaccination card and see how life is for you over the coming months. There are many people like me who do not like seeing what is going on and are fully vaccinated. We have read enough history and have seen the hatred forming towards people divided on political and cultural lines, as the state pushes the envelope of acceptable oppression as it always does. Authoritarianism only happens when enough people can form a “reasonable” argument justifying it, usually out of fear or hatred of others, not rationally. Given the lack of acceptance of natural immunity, rationality seems not a full explanation. Just because you think getting vaccinated is a good idea doesn’t mean you can ignore oppression around you towards those who are trying to defend their right to body autonomy. Besides, what if you are next?

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

Proving that you're stupid by refusing to take a vaccine is not a stereotype.

gfodor 5y ago
Beautiful illustration of stereotyping.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Just because you can spell "stereotyping" doesn't mean that you understand what the word means. There's no stereotyping when it comes to people who refuse a vaccine that is proven to be effective at reducing the symptoms of a life-altering or life-ending virus. They're stupid.
  - gfodor 5y ago
    Painting people with a broad brush as you are doing here is stereotyping and is also a sign of stupidity. There are a lot of sane reasons to not get the vaccine. I don’t personally agree with them in most cases (except avoiding it for now in children) - but many of these reasons are not rooted in stupidity but different priors on risk. You have revealed your own ignorance and arguably your own stupidity (given the stereotyping) in several ways here, though.

oblio 5y ago

Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority? This is it. It's not the government oppressing unvaccinated, it's us, the majority doing it, because we consider unvaccinated people irresponsible. But oblio, I hear you say, that's mean, that's not fair, it's not democracy. Yes it is, that's why modern democracies have constitutions that protect basic rights and minority rights. Basic rights apply for all but if unvaccinated basic rights (in this case the right to not be inconvenienced for a bit by vaccination) infringe majority basic rights (the right to life and long term wellbeing), frequently they don't apply. Plus unvaccinated people are not a valid minority. They're not a protected minority anywhere in the world. Thankfully being anti-science and antisocial is not a protected category anywhere in the world that I know of. What makes unvaccinated people smarter than ALL the rest of us? Do they think that we're all collectively and individually dumber than them? Their arrogance is astounding. They all think they're Galileo when 99.9999% are Bozo the Clown, or worse, shortsighted and maliciously selfish people.

gfodor 5y ago
Maybe think a bit harder on what it means to set the precedent if the government can bar you, as an adult, from all employment or travel based upon your willingness to take a drug or not. Or pick up a history book about what happens when an easily identified group of people (who, in this case, are typically stereotyped as being of a certain race, political party, and culture) start being blamed for things such as the deaths of children from a virus, and are stereotyped by the media and those in government as collectively selfish, ignorant, and the cause of all of our problems. Don't let your fear or contempt for others land you in the category of people that have led the charge on setting up systems that are eventually turned on them once the next group gets their hands on the reins. As far as being anti-science goes, the vaccine mandates which do not account for natural immunity or the date you got your vaccines are fundamentally anti-science.
- oblio 5y ago
  > Maybe think a bit harder on what it means to set the precedent if the government can bar you, as an adult, from all employment or travel based upon your willingness to take a drug or not. Or pick up a history book about what happens when an easily identified group of people (who, in this case, are typically stereotyped as being of a certain race, political party, and culture) start being blamed for things such as the deaths of children from a virus, and are stereotyped by the media and those in government as collectively selfish, ignorant, and the cause of all of our problems. This is gross, it's basically an end to the dicussion. One is an immutable characteristic (being Jewish), the other one is a choice. Your comment either contains a huge fallacy, or more likely, considering your other comments, pushes an agenda. > As far as being anti-science goes, the vaccine mandates which do not account for natural immunity or the date you got your vaccines are fundamentally anti-science. Either way, goodbye! > As far as being anti-science goes, the vaccine mandates which do not account for natural immunity or the date you got your vaccines are fundamentally anti-science. In Europe at least the green passport also includes: * a recent test * proof of having had Covid But then again, I'm getting nowhere with this discussion and hopefully sane governments won't listen to people like you.