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Similarly: how many deaths can be attributed to pollution from coal plants powering the energy-costly Haber-Bosch process? (Without which the population never c
by lend000 5y ago
Similarly: how many deaths can be attributed to pollution from coal plants powering the energy-costly Haber-Bosch process? (Without which the population never could have exceeded 3 billion people.)
- sokoloff 5y agoIf it was required to enable billions more to be born, in some sense billions more deaths can eventually be attributed to it.
- ashtonkem 5y agoThe actual measure here is “preventable deaths”. Yes, every birth will (so far) result in a death. But there is a big, big difference between dying at 82 because a power plant enabled your birth, and dying at 63 because the emission from the power plant caused you to die from a heart attack or cancer. That 19 years would certainly matter to you and your family! And that’s before we consider what other ill effects you might have suffered because of those emissions.
- thaumasiotes 5y agoYou're not measuring "preventable deaths". All deaths are preventable deaths. It's just that it's not worth preventing many deaths. You're talking about life years. (The standard measure is actually QALYs, quality-adjusted life years.)
- thewakalix 5y agoI'd rather be born and die than never exist at all.
- sokoloff 5y ago100%; that’s exactly my point (though I admit I sent readers off in the wrong direction on the surface). Billions lived at all and tens of millions died an early death? That’s a pretty great trade if your only choice is to take or pass on that as a sole, binary option.
- echelon 5y ago> I'd rather be born and die than never exist at all. In the limit there is no difference.
- andybak 5y agoI'm not sure that's a logically coherent statement.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y agoTho either could have happened, only one of those things could be experienced.
- ashtonkem 5y agoAbout 100,000 per year, actually.
- arcticbull 5y agoBetween 25 and 33 deaths per TWh generated [1]. It's about 40% of the world's generation capacity. It totals right around 45,000TWh/yr (3890MToe). [2] So that works out to approximately 1.125-1.4 million people per year dying from coal power. I've seen other reports point to around 800K. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_supply_and_consumption#cite_note-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_supply_and_consum...
- pfdietz 5y agoAt a statistical value of $9M per life (the value used by the NRC when evaluating nuclear safety improvements), 30 deaths per TWh would add $0.27/kWh.
- Robotbeat 5y agoTo remind people, Haber-Bosch process produces fixed nitrogen in the form of ammonia from hydrogen. In the US, almost all hydrogen is produced from natural gas (not coal), although other fuels are more common in places like China. We used to use hydroelectric power to make hydrogen (using electrolysis) for Haber-Bosch, but gas reforming of methane ended up being much cheaper in the 1950s once that process became invented and widespread.