4 ms·

well some C-level staff eventually has to take some responsibility, can't keep passing the buck.

ineedasername 5y ago
some C-level staff eventually has to take some responsibility That may be optimistic. Off the top of my head I can't remember any c-level execs of such a massive corporation having criminal charges brought against them. (except maybe for some type of tax/securities fraud) There's probably... some? My knowledge of the area certainly isn't comprehensive.
- bell-cot 5y ago
  Not C-level - but at Boeing, and convicted of a felony in the case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darleen_Druyun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darleen_Druyun
- dylan604 5y ago
  What happened to the Enron guys? Didn't they go to jail? I know one commited suicide, but the othe 2 spent some time at Club Fed didn't they?
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Ken Lay (Chairman, CEO) had a heart attack and died, not suicide. Jeffrey Skilling (CEO) was initially sentenced to 24 years, later reduced to 14, served 12. Andrew Fastow (CFO) was sentenced to 6 years, served 5.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Thanks for the correction.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Volkswagon
elliekelly 5y ago
He is c-level. He’s the _Chief_ Technical Pilot.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Naw, that's just an honorary title. ;-) He could have gone higher to Master Chief.
- dhx 5y ago
  "Chief Technical Pilot" is not a role listed amongst the dozens of executive council roles and vice president roles at Boeing[1]. What about the following executive roles listed at [1]: * Chief Aerospace Safety Officer * Chief Compliance Officer * Chief Engineer * Vice President, Total Quality, Boeing Commercial Airplanes * Vice President and Chief Engineer, Boeing Commercial Airplanes * Vice President, Manufacturing and Safety Are there more indictments on the way? It doesn't sound plausible that a "Chief Technical Pilot" at Boeing should be ultimately responsible for signing off engineering designs for MCAS, signing off on the System Safety Analysis for MCAS, signing off on manuals to be provided to pilots that omitted MCAS, signing off on training materials that omitted MCAS, ensuring quality assurance across all of the above, signing off on verification and validation of MCAS, etc. There is a large team of people signing off on these processes and documents. Per [2], "The chief pilot is among the leaders who must concur that an airplane is flightworthy before the company proceeds with a flight." If I'm wrong and the chief pilot for an aircraft class is indeed ultimately responsible for its design, engineering, testing, training, certification and everything else, why is this situation possible? Is there no independent quality assurance and auditing? [1] https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/ https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/ [2] https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/737-max-pilots-role.page https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/737-max-pilots-role...
  - buildsjets 5y ago
    The Chief Project Engineer is the person who is ultimately responsible for the design, engineering, testing, setting training requirements, certification, and everything else. The CPE for the 737 MAX was Michael Teal. There’s only room for one signature on the FAA application for an ammended type certificate, and it was his. Forkner was not the Chief Pilot. He was the the Chief Technical Pilot, who is the person responsible for developing new training information for changed systems, getting it certified by the FAA, and coordinating with airlines to deploy it to their pilots. Therefore Forkner was responsible for: Signing off on manuals to be provided to pilots that omitted MCAS. Signing off on training materials that omitted MCAS. Signing on on the verification and validation that MCAS was correctly represented in the flight simulators.
lazide 5y ago
You’re generally not going to make it to C level at a Corp that size if you aren’t good at covering your ass.

some C-level staff eventually has to take some responsibility That may be optimistic. Off the top of my head I can't remember any c-level execs of such a massive corporation having criminal charges brought against them. (except maybe for some type of tax/securities fraud) There's probably... some? My knowledge of the area certainly isn't comprehensive.

bell-cot 5y ago
Not C-level - but at Boeing, and convicted of a felony in the case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darleen_Druyun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darleen_Druyun
dylan604 5y ago
What happened to the Enron guys? Didn't they go to jail? I know one commited suicide, but the othe 2 spent some time at Club Fed didn't they?
- tyingq 5y ago
  Ken Lay (Chairman, CEO) had a heart attack and died, not suicide. Jeffrey Skilling (CEO) was initially sentenced to 24 years, later reduced to 14, served 12. Andrew Fastow (CFO) was sentenced to 6 years, served 5.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Thanks for the correction.
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
Volkswagon

elliekelly 5y ago

He is c-level. He’s the _Chief_ Technical Pilot.

dylan604 5y ago
Naw, that's just an honorary title. ;-) He could have gone higher to Master Chief.
dhx 5y ago
"Chief Technical Pilot" is not a role listed amongst the dozens of executive council roles and vice president roles at Boeing[1]. What about the following executive roles listed at [1]: * Chief Aerospace Safety Officer * Chief Compliance Officer * Chief Engineer * Vice President, Total Quality, Boeing Commercial Airplanes * Vice President and Chief Engineer, Boeing Commercial Airplanes * Vice President, Manufacturing and Safety Are there more indictments on the way? It doesn't sound plausible that a "Chief Technical Pilot" at Boeing should be ultimately responsible for signing off engineering designs for MCAS, signing off on the System Safety Analysis for MCAS, signing off on manuals to be provided to pilots that omitted MCAS, signing off on training materials that omitted MCAS, ensuring quality assurance across all of the above, signing off on verification and validation of MCAS, etc. There is a large team of people signing off on these processes and documents. Per [2], "The chief pilot is among the leaders who must concur that an airplane is flightworthy before the company proceeds with a flight." If I'm wrong and the chief pilot for an aircraft class is indeed ultimately responsible for its design, engineering, testing, training, certification and everything else, why is this situation possible? Is there no independent quality assurance and auditing? [1] https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/ https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/ [2] https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/737-max-pilots-role.page https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/737-max-pilots-role...
- buildsjets 5y ago
  The Chief Project Engineer is the person who is ultimately responsible for the design, engineering, testing, setting training requirements, certification, and everything else. The CPE for the 737 MAX was Michael Teal. There’s only room for one signature on the FAA application for an ammended type certificate, and it was his. Forkner was not the Chief Pilot. He was the the Chief Technical Pilot, who is the person responsible for developing new training information for changed systems, getting it certified by the FAA, and coordinating with airlines to deploy it to their pilots. Therefore Forkner was responsible for: Signing off on manuals to be provided to pilots that omitted MCAS. Signing off on training materials that omitted MCAS. Signing on on the verification and validation that MCAS was correctly represented in the flight simulators.

lazide 5y ago

You’re generally not going to make it to C level at a Corp that size if you aren’t good at covering your ass.