5 ms·

Are you saying that homeless people shouldn't be able to vote?

kodah 5y ago
That probably does make things tricky. Personally I think that we should accept all IDs but vary their impact based on what they provide. For instance, a voter ID verifies residence, so you can vote in elections. If you have no residence, maybe that's a broader state or federal ID but you can't vote in local elections. A bit of an aside, when I moved to California I wasn't able to vote in the primaries because I refused to pledge loyalty to the Democratic party, though registering to vote was rather easy. In Texas registering was rather easy and I could vote in primaries.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  When did you move to California?
  - kodah 5y ago
    Around 4 years ago
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      Primaries for state and national offices except president were non partisan the whole time.[1] The Democratic Party allowed unaffiliated voters to vote in their presidential primary. Unlike the Republican Party.[2] And stating a preference isn't a loyalty oath. [1] https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/primary-elections-california https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/primary-elections-californi... [2] https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/political-parties/no-party-preference/history-political-parties-have-adopted-party-rules-regarding-no-party-preference-voters https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/political-parties/no-party-...
      - kodah 5y ago
        I do remember not being able to vote in the primary, but I chalked it up to another weird California thing. I'm not sure how I don't count as unaffiliated but, regardless, the practice of not running an open primary is very strange to me coming from Texas.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  > If you have no residence, maybe that's a broader state or federal ID but you can't vote in local elections. That would be sad, because local governments are the ones that pass ordinances criminalizing homelessness (e.g. sleeping and urinating outside). I think it would be unconscionable to prevent people from having a voice in their governance based on their landownership status, but I guess we can hardly call such an idea out of line with America’s founding values.
  - kodah 5y ago
    If you could guarantee that a homeless person were to stay in that city then it'd make sense. I doubt that's feasible though. The benefit a state ID allowing you to vote in state elections could potentially allow someone to do is vote for candidates that would have a state-wide policy on homelessness, rather than just local. When I came to California it was kind of funny that I was able to vote in local elections immediately. I hardly knew anything about the area, what could I possibly vote for?
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      But other citizens don't have to prove they will be in a city in the future to prove residency; it's sufficient to prove they've been in a city in the past to fulfill residency requirements. I can move to a town, register to vote after the residency requirement is fulfilled, move away the very same day, and still vote in that city until I have residency elsewhere. Why should it work any differently for a homeless person?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > A bit of an aside, when I moved to California I wasn't able to vote in the primaries because I refused to pledge loyalty to the Democratic party, though registering to vote was rather easy. I still don't get why people think they are entitled to participate in party-internal candidate selection elections without even claiming membership (with absolutely zero commitment ot pledge of loyalty of any kind) in the party. (There are primary elections that serve different functions than selecting party nominees, often simultaneously with party primaries, and you've always been able to vote in them in California without identifying with a party; California has extended the scope of them and gotten rid of most party primaries, though the Presidential primary is still a closed party primary.)
  - kodah 5y ago
    Personally speaking, I despise both of our parties, and their worst constituents. That said, as an independent I have to deal with both of the parties. If I know I'm going to vote a certain way in an election then I'd like to have a voice in who the devil-that-I-choose is without affirming that I'm okay with the party. Maybe that makes better sense.
efitz 5y ago
I’ll bite. Yes. I am ok if homeless people find it difficult or impossible to vote. If you are not capable of functioning minimally in society, I really don’t trust your judgment when trying to contribute to a positive societal outcome via voting. As a citizen, you have the right to vote, providing you can meet minimal requirements. If you can’t meet them, then maybe focus on fixing your own problems before voting.
- throwaway675309 5y ago
  Denying the right to vote, a fundamental aspect of democracy, because someone has found themselves homeless (which in some ways represents a greater failure of our own society to provide a safety net for all citizens) is unbelievable. But it's okay, because they just need to "fix their own problems first" as you put it in such a blasé fashion.
  - efitz 5y ago
    We’re not denying them the right to vote. We’re saying that preserving the privilege of citizenship and ensuring election integrity are more important. If you can prove residency then you should be allowed to vote.
    - gaganyaan 5y ago
      > We're not denying them the right to vote. We're [just denying them the right to vote] Some fucking people, man. I hope you someday find the capacity to empathize with your fellow people.
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      What exactly is the privilege of citizenship? You are talking about stripping a fellow citizen of their rights just because you have decided they are not wealthy enough to deserve them. What if some people got together and decided they didn’t appreciate something about your living situation, and that if you didn’t correct it then you would be stripped of the your rights? Do you feel like you are immune from becoming homeless? What gives you that security? I just seriously doubt you would hold such opinions if you’ve ever been homeless or knew anyone who has been homeless.

That probably does make things tricky. Personally I think that we should accept all IDs but vary their impact based on what they provide. For instance, a voter ID verifies residence, so you can vote in elections. If you have no residence, maybe that's a broader state or federal ID but you can't vote in local elections. A bit of an aside, when I moved to California I wasn't able to vote in the primaries because I refused to pledge loyalty to the Democratic party, though registering to vote was rather easy. In Texas registering was rather easy and I could vote in primaries.

pseudalopex 5y ago
When did you move to California?
- kodah 5y ago
  Around 4 years ago
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    Primaries for state and national offices except president were non partisan the whole time.[1] The Democratic Party allowed unaffiliated voters to vote in their presidential primary. Unlike the Republican Party.[2] And stating a preference isn't a loyalty oath. [1] https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/primary-elections-california https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/primary-elections-californi... [2] https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/political-parties/no-party-preference/history-political-parties-have-adopted-party-rules-regarding-no-party-preference-voters https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/political-parties/no-party-...
    - kodah 5y ago
      I do remember not being able to vote in the primary, but I chalked it up to another weird California thing. I'm not sure how I don't count as unaffiliated but, regardless, the practice of not running an open primary is very strange to me coming from Texas.
ModernMech 5y ago
> If you have no residence, maybe that's a broader state or federal ID but you can't vote in local elections. That would be sad, because local governments are the ones that pass ordinances criminalizing homelessness (e.g. sleeping and urinating outside). I think it would be unconscionable to prevent people from having a voice in their governance based on their landownership status, but I guess we can hardly call such an idea out of line with America’s founding values.
- kodah 5y ago
  If you could guarantee that a homeless person were to stay in that city then it'd make sense. I doubt that's feasible though. The benefit a state ID allowing you to vote in state elections could potentially allow someone to do is vote for candidates that would have a state-wide policy on homelessness, rather than just local. When I came to California it was kind of funny that I was able to vote in local elections immediately. I hardly knew anything about the area, what could I possibly vote for?
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    But other citizens don't have to prove they will be in a city in the future to prove residency; it's sufficient to prove they've been in a city in the past to fulfill residency requirements. I can move to a town, register to vote after the residency requirement is fulfilled, move away the very same day, and still vote in that city until I have residency elsewhere. Why should it work any differently for a homeless person?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> A bit of an aside, when I moved to California I wasn't able to vote in the primaries because I refused to pledge loyalty to the Democratic party, though registering to vote was rather easy. I still don't get why people think they are entitled to participate in party-internal candidate selection elections without even claiming membership (with absolutely zero commitment ot pledge of loyalty of any kind) in the party. (There are primary elections that serve different functions than selecting party nominees, often simultaneously with party primaries, and you've always been able to vote in them in California without identifying with a party; California has extended the scope of them and gotten rid of most party primaries, though the Presidential primary is still a closed party primary.)
- kodah 5y ago
  Personally speaking, I despise both of our parties, and their worst constituents. That said, as an independent I have to deal with both of the parties. If I know I'm going to vote a certain way in an election then I'd like to have a voice in who the devil-that-I-choose is without affirming that I'm okay with the party. Maybe that makes better sense.

efitz 5y ago

I’ll bite. Yes. I am ok if homeless people find it difficult or impossible to vote. If you are not capable of functioning minimally in society, I really don’t trust your judgment when trying to contribute to a positive societal outcome via voting. As a citizen, you have the right to vote, providing you can meet minimal requirements. If you can’t meet them, then maybe focus on fixing your own problems before voting.

throwaway675309 5y ago
Denying the right to vote, a fundamental aspect of democracy, because someone has found themselves homeless (which in some ways represents a greater failure of our own society to provide a safety net for all citizens) is unbelievable. But it's okay, because they just need to "fix their own problems first" as you put it in such a blasé fashion.
- efitz 5y ago
  We’re not denying them the right to vote. We’re saying that preserving the privilege of citizenship and ensuring election integrity are more important. If you can prove residency then you should be allowed to vote.
  - gaganyaan 5y ago
    > We're not denying them the right to vote. We're [just denying them the right to vote] Some fucking people, man. I hope you someday find the capacity to empathize with your fellow people.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    What exactly is the privilege of citizenship? You are talking about stripping a fellow citizen of their rights just because you have decided they are not wealthy enough to deserve them. What if some people got together and decided they didn’t appreciate something about your living situation, and that if you didn’t correct it then you would be stripped of the your rights? Do you feel like you are immune from becoming homeless? What gives you that security? I just seriously doubt you would hold such opinions if you’ve ever been homeless or knew anyone who has been homeless.