8 ms·

College ID isn't proof of residence. Driver's licenses are. If you formally have residence in the state you are schooling in, you are required to have that stat

College ID isn't proof of residence. Driver's licenses are. If you formally have residence in the state you are schooling in, you are required to have that state's driver's license. Allowing college students with an out of state drivers license to vote with their college ID guarantees them TWO votes- because they can legally file a mail in vote to the state they have that driver's license in. Some hunting licenses require residence in the state that issues them. For those that do, provided they have a photo or something similar, there is no reason to not accept them. Odds are though, if you have a hunting license, you also have a driver's license.

neuronexmachina 5y ago
> Allowing college students with an out of state drivers license to vote with their college ID guarantees them TWO votes- because they can legally file a mail in vote to the state they have that driver's license in. Isn't that an (easily detectable) felony?
- zdragnar 5y ago
  It is only detectable if anyone is looking, and getting audits done that cross state lines (each state effectively runs its own election) is not something we are currently equipped to handle.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    States track each other's voter registrations and postal change of address forms to detect duplicate registrations. You seem equipped to handle strengthening that. You don't seem equipped to require specific ID documents without disenfranchising people.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    There are plenty of people looking though. There was a federal commission set up in 2017 to investigate this idea and they disbanded because they couldn’t make any progress in the direction the administration wanted (the finding of fraud). People forget Trump claimed there was fraud in the 2016 election that he won. He said there were people bussed to New England to which caused him to lose there. How did no one witness this massive fraud? How is there no record? Where did the busses come from? Where did the money come from? It should be a cursory issue to verify some of these claims, and yet every effort to do so is scuttled when the evidence doesn’t show. We just went through a 6 months long audit of the results in Arizona’s Maricopa county. The auditors there claimed massive fraud that would have flipped the election occurred. After much fanfare for months, they quietly packed up shop and did everything they could to avoid mentioning their conclusions were that the results of the previous audit were upheld. I’ve been hearing about the voter id debate since I was in high school decades ago, and still no evidence this behavior is occurring. It’s well enough to conjecture this thing might be occurring, but eventually after decades you need to put up the evidence.
  - paulmd 5y ago
    People are absolutely looking. It's routinely detected when republicans who believe this nonsense decide to give it a try. Often they are even lawmakers! Pro tip never get high on your own supply, there, chief. But I get that state legislatures are cowtown nobodies and yeah they often actually are dumb enough to believe the prolefeed. https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/559812-ohio-republican-official-said-he-made-honest-error-in-voting-twice https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/559812-ohio-republi... https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2017/07/07/iowa-woman-charged-voting-twice-trump-pleads-guilty/459718001/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-court... https://www.dailylocal.com/2021/01/14/chester-county-man-facing-trial-for-voter-fraud-says-he-was-tricked-into-voting-twice/ https://www.dailylocal.com/2021/01/14/chester-county-man-fac... https://www.azmirror.com/2021/07/13/vote-fraud-scottsdale-woman-indicted-for-casting-dead-mothers-ballot/ https://www.azmirror.com/2021/07/13/vote-fraud-scottsdale-wo... https://www.newsweek.com/man-charged-voting-dead-mother-trump-3rd-case-voter-fraud-pennsylvania-1556553 https://www.newsweek.com/man-charged-voting-dead-mother-trum... https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/fraud-charges-brought-in-2nd-wisconsin-2020-election-case/article_7bb87cc4-bd62-5b88-b38e-10bbee9e13ad.html https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/fraud-c... Whether you voted is public record, and literally anyone can pull death records as well, and compare the two. Mostly not a match, but every now and then it turns up a few republicans who thought they'd "even the score" since "it's so easy to get away with".
dragonwriter 5y ago
> College ID isn't proof of residence Voter ID generally isn't supposed to be proof of residence, its proof of identity; it exists to prove that the voter is the person registered, not that the registered person is authorized to vote. Most IDs acceptable for voting do not prove authorization (or even “authorization but for the potential of disqualification by felony”), so not accepting college ID because it doesn't prove authorization to vote is...not well justified, even in the public logic of voter ID. Of course, voter ID proponents have let out the private partisan internal logic lots of times when they thought only people aligned with their faction were listening, so we don't need to speculate why the rules are inconsistent with the public logic.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  If you do not currently have residence, your registration to vote is no longer valid. That is why an ID which proves residence at the time of voting is considered important by proponents.
  - thebooktocome 5y ago
    Are you saying that homeless people shouldn't be able to vote?
    - kodah 5y ago
      That probably does make things tricky. Personally I think that we should accept all IDs but vary their impact based on what they provide. For instance, a voter ID verifies residence, so you can vote in elections. If you have no residence, maybe that's a broader state or federal ID but you can't vote in local elections. A bit of an aside, when I moved to California I wasn't able to vote in the primaries because I refused to pledge loyalty to the Democratic party, though registering to vote was rather easy. In Texas registering was rather easy and I could vote in primaries.
      - pseudalopex 5y ago
        When did you move to California?
pseudalopex 5y ago
Where is a driver's license the only ID accepted for voting? A static document doesn't prove current residence. And someone can reside in more than 1 state. They just have to pick 1 for taxes and voting.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
Massachusetts makes out of state students eligible for jury duty. Why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Because they can also vote in their state of residency. You can't be eligible to vote in two places. The fact that MA will conscript nonresidents for jury duty is morally wrong, but besides the point.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  Massachusetts makes MA students studying out of state eligble for taxes, but not voting.
brendoelfrendo 5y ago
> Allowing college students with an out of state drivers license to vote with their college ID guarantees them TWO votes- because they can legally file a mail in vote to the state they have that driver's license in. Registering to vote in two states is a really easy way to end up in jail.
ncallaway 5y ago
> If you formally have residence in the state you are schooling in, you are required to have that state's driver's license. I’m aware of no state in the country that mandates a driver’s license for all residents. It would really defeat the purpose of a driver’s license! Only residents _who drive on public roads_ are required to obtain a license. That’s absolutely not the entire population. > guarantees them two votes This is an absolutely inaccurate claim. They are not _guaranteed_ two votes, because no one is offering such a guarantee. And no one offers such a guarantee, because voting in the same election in two different states is illegal, and is fairly trivial to catch, since who voted in which elections are public records in most (all?) states.
mattzito 5y ago
> If you formally have residence in the state you are schooling in, you are required to have that state's driver's license. If you want to drive in that state. Seems odd to require a drivers license to vote if you live on a college campus where everything is in walking distance.

neuronexmachina 5y ago

> Allowing college students with an out of state drivers license to vote with their college ID guarantees them TWO votes- because they can legally file a mail in vote to the state they have that driver's license in. Isn't that an (easily detectable) felony?

zdragnar 5y ago
It is only detectable if anyone is looking, and getting audits done that cross state lines (each state effectively runs its own election) is not something we are currently equipped to handle.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  States track each other's voter registrations and postal change of address forms to detect duplicate registrations. You seem equipped to handle strengthening that. You don't seem equipped to require specific ID documents without disenfranchising people.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  There are plenty of people looking though. There was a federal commission set up in 2017 to investigate this idea and they disbanded because they couldn’t make any progress in the direction the administration wanted (the finding of fraud). People forget Trump claimed there was fraud in the 2016 election that he won. He said there were people bussed to New England to which caused him to lose there. How did no one witness this massive fraud? How is there no record? Where did the busses come from? Where did the money come from? It should be a cursory issue to verify some of these claims, and yet every effort to do so is scuttled when the evidence doesn’t show. We just went through a 6 months long audit of the results in Arizona’s Maricopa county. The auditors there claimed massive fraud that would have flipped the election occurred. After much fanfare for months, they quietly packed up shop and did everything they could to avoid mentioning their conclusions were that the results of the previous audit were upheld. I’ve been hearing about the voter id debate since I was in high school decades ago, and still no evidence this behavior is occurring. It’s well enough to conjecture this thing might be occurring, but eventually after decades you need to put up the evidence.
- paulmd 5y ago
  People are absolutely looking. It's routinely detected when republicans who believe this nonsense decide to give it a try. Often they are even lawmakers! Pro tip never get high on your own supply, there, chief. But I get that state legislatures are cowtown nobodies and yeah they often actually are dumb enough to believe the prolefeed. https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/559812-ohio-republican-official-said-he-made-honest-error-in-voting-twice https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/559812-ohio-republi... https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2017/07/07/iowa-woman-charged-voting-twice-trump-pleads-guilty/459718001/ https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-court... https://www.dailylocal.com/2021/01/14/chester-county-man-facing-trial-for-voter-fraud-says-he-was-tricked-into-voting-twice/ https://www.dailylocal.com/2021/01/14/chester-county-man-fac... https://www.azmirror.com/2021/07/13/vote-fraud-scottsdale-woman-indicted-for-casting-dead-mothers-ballot/ https://www.azmirror.com/2021/07/13/vote-fraud-scottsdale-wo... https://www.newsweek.com/man-charged-voting-dead-mother-trump-3rd-case-voter-fraud-pennsylvania-1556553 https://www.newsweek.com/man-charged-voting-dead-mother-trum... https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/fraud-charges-brought-in-2nd-wisconsin-2020-election-case/article_7bb87cc4-bd62-5b88-b38e-10bbee9e13ad.html https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/fraud-c... Whether you voted is public record, and literally anyone can pull death records as well, and compare the two. Mostly not a match, but every now and then it turns up a few republicans who thought they'd "even the score" since "it's so easy to get away with".

dragonwriter 5y ago

> College ID isn't proof of residence Voter ID generally isn't supposed to be proof of residence, its proof of identity; it exists to prove that the voter is the person registered, not that the registered person is authorized to vote. Most IDs acceptable for voting do not prove authorization (or even “authorization but for the potential of disqualification by felony”), so not accepting college ID because it doesn't prove authorization to vote is...not well justified, even in the public logic of voter ID. Of course, voter ID proponents have let out the private partisan internal logic lots of times when they thought only people aligned with their faction were listening, so we don't need to speculate why the rules are inconsistent with the public logic.

zdragnar 5y ago
If you do not currently have residence, your registration to vote is no longer valid. That is why an ID which proves residence at the time of voting is considered important by proponents.
- thebooktocome 5y ago
  Are you saying that homeless people shouldn't be able to vote?
  - kodah 5y ago
    That probably does make things tricky. Personally I think that we should accept all IDs but vary their impact based on what they provide. For instance, a voter ID verifies residence, so you can vote in elections. If you have no residence, maybe that's a broader state or federal ID but you can't vote in local elections. A bit of an aside, when I moved to California I wasn't able to vote in the primaries because I refused to pledge loyalty to the Democratic party, though registering to vote was rather easy. In Texas registering was rather easy and I could vote in primaries.
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      When did you move to California?

pseudalopex 5y ago

Where is a driver's license the only ID accepted for voting? A static document doesn't prove current residence. And someone can reside in more than 1 state. They just have to pick 1 for taxes and voting.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

Massachusetts makes out of state students eligible for jury duty. Why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?

dahfizz 5y ago
Because they can also vote in their state of residency. You can't be eligible to vote in two places. The fact that MA will conscript nonresidents for jury duty is morally wrong, but besides the point.
vineyardmike 5y ago
Massachusetts makes MA students studying out of state eligble for taxes, but not voting.

brendoelfrendo 5y ago

ncallaway 5y ago

> If you formally have residence in the state you are schooling in, you are required to have that state's driver's license. I’m aware of no state in the country that mandates a driver’s license for all residents. It would really defeat the purpose of a driver’s license! Only residents _who drive on public roads_ are required to obtain a license. That’s absolutely not the entire population. > guarantees them two votes This is an absolutely inaccurate claim. They are not _guaranteed_ two votes, because no one is offering such a guarantee. And no one offers such a guarantee, because voting in the same election in two different states is illegal, and is fairly trivial to catch, since who voted in which elections are public records in most (all?) states.

mattzito 5y ago

> If you formally have residence in the state you are schooling in, you are required to have that state's driver's license. If you want to drive in that state. Seems odd to require a drivers license to vote if you live on a college campus where everything is in walking distance.