12 ms·

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to proc

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up with my logitech mouse, keyboard and monitor not connected to a cloud account and I expect to die that way. Why does Facebook get to do things differently.

baby 5y ago
I think you'll want to talk to Apple first.
HWR_14 5y ago
Why bother specifying hardware? No, thank you, I have no desire to have a cloud account for my purely offline software either.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  If it requires a cloud account it isn't purely offline software. How else do they authenticate you?
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    It's purely offline software that reaches out to the cloud solely to spy on me and/or make me log in. There are no online features I need or want from it. What authentication do I need or want on a local device that is software specific?
kfarr 5y ago
This has to apply to "smart tvs" too. Those things are out of control.
ipsum2 5y ago
How do you define a peripheral? An Oculus Quest is basically a repackaged smart phone.
- rhacker 5y ago
  I mean I don't see why this couldn't apply cart-blanche to all computers. I don't need to sign into MS, Mac to use the computers (though I do for my mac because of corp. policy). It has been getting harder, but fuck, why not use this opportunity to turn this shit around?
  - birdyrooster 5y ago
    As it stands you need not sign into iCloud to use macOS or Microsoft Live to use Windows. Not sure what the law would even do.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    You do need to sign into MS to use Word, Excel, Outlook, etc.
    - rhacker 5y ago
      I get that, but that's software on the main device. I guess yes, wording such a law will be a crap and a half.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        Not sure why this matters. Can you use an iPhone without entering an iCloud account? Can you use an Android without some G account? I honestly don't know as I've never tried skirting the system on my iDevices, an my only use with Android is in a dev environment, but I know that there were G accounts for these as well.
    - Tokelin 5y ago
      Why though? Why is that requirement there? Okay, it's nice for me to sync everything and have a seamlessly integrated ecosystem. But what if I have one device and just want to use Word on it and that's it?
dougmwne 5y ago
Great way to make Facebook drop PCVR support and allow standalone apps only. At this point, I think things are going in that direction rapidly anyway. Oculus has already shifted most of it's game development resources away from PCVR.
- arsome 5y ago
  I'm not so sure, Facebook did just invest a bunch of effort in getting AirLink working to allow wireless PC VR support and they seem to keep improving it.
- Kuinox 5y ago
  Virtual Desktop run fines and I never needed the Oculus PCVR support.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  Laws can always be amended.
- thebigman433 5y ago
  What makes you think theyre dropping PCVR support? They just spent 3 years getting wired and wireless Link working. They clearly want to unify their products into a single hybrid standalone/pcvr lineup. PCVR software sales are just absolutely abysmal, there is no way to make a profit on a large scale app, so theyre only going to invest in AAA content for standalone now.
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    Yes, it's the lack of investment and profit potential on PCVR. It also may interest the Oculus founders who want the highest quality experience, but it does not fall in line with Zuck's vision which is a cheap and good enough social VR machine.
SamuelAdams 5y ago
Docking stations and printers too. Here’s a recent HP printer that requires an account. https://reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/pwrgb1/buyer_beware_some_newer_hp_printers_will_not/ https://reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/pwrgb1/buyer_beware_s...
- dylan604 5y ago
  Thanks. I don't typically read reddit, so I had not seen this. Starting to contemplate getting a new inkjet for the home office. I now have something else to keep in mind during the researching. This plus all of the ink jet forensic marking, I'm leaning towards the extra cost for color laser instead, and definitely not an HP.
  - 14 5y ago
    I have the brother 3750 I believe the model is and is great. The starter inks lasted me a long time and I finally bought all new full sized ink I expect they will last years. It was a bit costly to buy all the ink but I know it will last for years and I know if I don’t use it for a few months it will still print perfectly when I decide to. Definitely recommend a brother printer.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      I currently have a B&W brother laser, and it has done everything I have asked it to do. However, I've recently started using specialty paper that this particular model has problems pulling from the paper tray, and using the single sheet manual feeder is guarnteed to pull it through at an angle. I do not judge the printer on this paper. I've used color lasers in the past, but it was a higher end and was very pleased with its results. I like how we've hijacked an oculus thread on printers!!
    - filoleg 5y ago
      Brother printers are something else. After getting tired of having to do major troubleshooting for my printer at least a few times a year and deal with minor annoyances from time to time, I decided to leave my old printer to my parents (as I was doing a cross-country move at the time, so the less I brought with me the easier it would be). As soon as I settled in, I got a Brother MFCL2740DW printer. That was almost 5 years ago. Let me tell you, the longer I have it, the longer it keeps blowing my mind. I've only set it up once, and then forgot about it forever. Since then, I added bajillion different devices, built a new desktop, switched routers multiple times and completely redid my wireless networking, etc. On every new device (including smartphones), without having to install any additional software or screwing around with settings, I can reliably expect to just click "print", and my printer will show up in the list of available printing devices, and it will just work. Toner cartridges last forever and are priced very reasonably. I can simply take the printer, put it wherever I want, and it will just work with any device from which one can print without any extra actions. Normally, a lot of devices start like that at first, and then problems start arising, and things start becoming unreliable due to compatibility issues with newer devices and such, new firmware updates are needed, maybe certain workarounds in settings, etc. But nope, not a single hitch with this one, as it is coming close to 5 years of regular use in many different configurations. And no, I am not getting paid to advertise for Brother printers. I just simply love when a tool is super powerful like that, but also "just works" extremely reliably without any thought needed, very seamlessly and in the background.
akerl_ 5y ago
Why is it desirable for Congress to make laws limiting how electronics manufacturers can design their electronics? If Facebook wants to make a VR headset that requires that you upload a monthly video of you doing the chicken dance, just don’t buy their product. Attempting to use government to make private entities build the kinds of technology you like is a pretty heavy hammer to drop on individual freedoms.
- Kaze404 5y ago
  Companies are not individuals.
  - ksdale 5y ago
    I'm no corporate shill, but corporations are groups of people, so anything you think it's ok to take away from them because they're a group and not a person, you could logically take away from, say, a union or a farmer's market. If it was wise to make that law regarding facebook, would it be wise to make it regarding an individual as well, or should individuals be allowed to do it because they're not groups? And if individuals shouldn't be allowed to do it, then it's not really about the distinction between corporations and individuals.
    - rhacker 5y ago
      So backing up out of that for a second. Are you saying there are individuals (not part of a group, or a corporation) that are dead set on making computer peripherals that require an account?
      - ksdale 5y ago
        Is that relevant? I think the analysis should revolve around whether they should be allowed to, and not whether we can just ban it because nobody wants to do it anyway. I don't think that's a good way to make rules.
    - tpxl 5y ago
      The connection between corps and unions/farmers markets is clear to me, but the jump between unions/farmers markets to individuals is not. Yes, I do think groups should not have rights individuals have. It's more about the scale than the amount of people, and the line between that gets blurred when an individual can control thousands of PCs.
camkego 5y ago
Has anyone else noticed what a large add campaign Facebook has launched featuring Millennials asking for new and re-vamped Internet regulation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kur94OyXf3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kur94OyXf3U What is this all about?
- voltaireodactyl 5y ago
  My strong suspicion is that the general plan is essentially: - let a whistleblower (who seems intent on describing Facebook employees as smart and humanistic folks, despite those employees designing and maintaining FBs content delivery systems) make a case that Facebook needs government regulation. - agree that such a regulatory agency should be created, and offer FBs assistance in outlining the parameters involved — because who better than the problem to design the solution? - agency is created. Perhaps the whistleblower can even be a high level figure within it, as the face of the issue. - Suddenly FB is no longer liable for anything because they are “adhering to government regulation”. - Regulatory capture ensues as expected. FOR FB this is preferable to thr other options: 1. Calls for FB to be broken up 2. Regulation that FB doesn’t have a primary role in designing.
- slim 5y ago
  Marketing + regulatory capture. They seem pretty confident any regulation won't mandate they open their social graph to competition
- batty_alex 5y ago
  Facebook wants to be the ones in the room helping write the new regulations to make sure it works in their favor, mostly
a-dub 5y ago
hmm. it doesn't seem all that different from sony or microsoft subsizing the cost of gaming consoles and then locking down what can run on them so they can recoup those costs by getting a slice of the game sales. nor is it all that different from apple or google dumping millions and millions into ios and android os/base level platform development, software update/delivery infrastructure and proactive platform security and then recouping those costs on sales and in-app purchases through the app stores. it's been going on since the original nintendo entertainment system with its approval process. prior to that was the atari 2600 debacle, where the platform languished and the ecosystem of software was such crap that people just sort of gave up on it. that said, are they a form of monopoly? it certainly amortizes the costs of developing hardware and os platforms to the point that consumers are willing to buy in, but it also results in undue control over the resulting platforms. hard to say... i think it all comes down to how that control is wielded... (and without it, it's the atari 2600 all over again) only alternatives i can think of are to regulate the platforms for fairness or force platform vendors to offer full price/off contract versions of their hardware.
- a-dub 5y ago
  plus, shrug it seems that locked down platforms present a nice challenge for young tinkerers to break that can ultimately kindle their interests in technology.
sgregnt 5y ago
If for some reason,now or in the future, I prefer my peripherals to be connected to cloud. Your law deprives me of this freedom. Just a thought.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  There is a balance to achieve. It might be better than facebook forcing a cloud account on everyone.
  - sgregnt 5y ago
    I don't think Facebook is forcing anything, any tiny bit. Maybe that's what we disagree about. I think you are 100% free not to use any facebook products.
  - sgregnt 5y ago
    While it might sound moderate "..balance to achieve..." in my opinion in this is very dangerous thought... as it assumes a lot of hidden things to name a few: 1. that the balance is the same for different people, 2. that the balance is not evolving over time, 3. that people can vote for "good" politicians to suggest good balance but at the same time can't figure out themselves how and if to use Facebook. 4. That the proper balance can be found at all. 5. That the side effect elsewhere will not bring worse overall outcome. 6. That an alternative better free market solution (better optimal) would not be prevented by getting stuck in a local minima 7. That facebook will not find a way to circumvent the new balance. 8. That it's the best use of regulators involved in it to figure out the best balance rather than thinking of something else 9. That it will not increase the value of lobbying and more...
- 3np 5y ago
  No, it does not. It requires that they should be usable without. Why is that unreasonable?
  - sgregnt 5y ago
    Teo out of top of my head: 1. Because they will cost more 2. I don't want my child to connect without me knowing.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
phkahler 5y ago
Oculus Quest is not a peripheral, it's a standalone device. Having an app store is nice, but tying to Facebook is not needed or wanted.
reilly3000 5y ago
I hate to break it to you, but Logitech now runs always-on ‘Cloud Settings’ sync and telemetry software called Logi Options. It comes with a way to use a mouse across devices seamlessly (Flow) which requires low-level networking permissions and a daemon on all participating devices. It’s not required that you have an account or even use the software, but of course they actively push all of the above and require it to use special device features. Razer, Steelseries, and the rest do the same, and I think Razer’s account is mandatory. I don’t like it one bit. Thankfully most of that crap doesn’t work on Linux.
- Ph0X 5y ago
  > It’s not required that you have an account or even use the software That's the key point. The fact that some people weren't even able to use their Oculus device when FB went down for hours is insane. Imagine not being able to use your mouse or keyboard because Logitech went down. There's a very big difference between an optional cloud system that brings convenience (settings sync) vs a required cloud system that the device cannot be used without. From my understanding, the comment about was specifically trying to write regulation against the latter.
- ziml77 5y ago
  Razer is even worse than a mandatory account. When you connect a Razer device (including changing the port it's plugged into), Windows will try to execute the Razer software installer. It's really annoying.
  - ladberg 5y ago
    To make it worse, the installer that's automatically downloaded and run has admin permissions and could be exploited to gain admin access on any Windows computer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28273283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28273283
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    You can turn off that in Windows Settings
lostmsu 5y ago
Peripheral might be complicated. But I would like to see such a legislation for anything that is Turing-complete and sufficiently performant (e.g. can run Doom at 800x600 32bpp 60FPS).
porknubbins 5y ago
I agree with the spirit of the rule but that seems too restrictive to freedom to contract. I feel like there will always be a market solution for peripherals where someone is selling them unrestricted. With VR is the issue not that the business model itself is still not good so FB was kind of subsidising the Oculus? If VR were highly profitable it seems like other companies with less restrictive terms would come in.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Impossible 5y ago
Quest is basically a game console and not a peripheral. Even "dumb" non-standalone HMDs like Index have complex software stacks for tracking, input and rendering (compositor). HN loves the narrative of a VR device being "just" a monitor but that's really not the case. If this rule is applied to VR as it exists in 2021 (not 2013 DK1 which kind of was a 2nd monitor + HID) then it has to apply to all PCs, game consoles, smartphones, IOT devices etc. I'm not saying that legislation shouldn't happen but it does have ramifications for users and for security. On Quest you could do this, but social features and store might stop working at some point, and newer games and applications would definitely stop working, especially ones that use new features implemented in software like hand tracking. TLDR this legislation could be fine but it would have to target Windows, Android, Steam, Playstation, Mac OS, etc and has ramifications that eventually software might just stop working. It might accelerate the push to move everything to the cloud also and make all devices dumb terminals that play video.

baby 5y ago

I think you'll want to talk to Apple first.

HWR_14 5y ago

Why bother specifying hardware? No, thank you, I have no desire to have a cloud account for my purely offline software either.

charcircuit 5y ago
If it requires a cloud account it isn't purely offline software. How else do they authenticate you?
- HWR_14 5y ago
  It's purely offline software that reaches out to the cloud solely to spy on me and/or make me log in. There are no online features I need or want from it. What authentication do I need or want on a local device that is software specific?

kfarr 5y ago

This has to apply to "smart tvs" too. Those things are out of control.

ipsum2 5y ago

How do you define a peripheral? An Oculus Quest is basically a repackaged smart phone.

rhacker 5y ago
I mean I don't see why this couldn't apply cart-blanche to all computers. I don't need to sign into MS, Mac to use the computers (though I do for my mac because of corp. policy). It has been getting harder, but fuck, why not use this opportunity to turn this shit around?
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  As it stands you need not sign into iCloud to use macOS or Microsoft Live to use Windows. Not sure what the law would even do.
- dylan604 5y ago
  You do need to sign into MS to use Word, Excel, Outlook, etc.
  - rhacker 5y ago
    I get that, but that's software on the main device. I guess yes, wording such a law will be a crap and a half.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Not sure why this matters. Can you use an iPhone without entering an iCloud account? Can you use an Android without some G account? I honestly don't know as I've never tried skirting the system on my iDevices, an my only use with Android is in a dev environment, but I know that there were G accounts for these as well.
  - Tokelin 5y ago
    Why though? Why is that requirement there? Okay, it's nice for me to sync everything and have a seamlessly integrated ecosystem. But what if I have one device and just want to use Word on it and that's it?

dougmwne 5y ago

Great way to make Facebook drop PCVR support and allow standalone apps only. At this point, I think things are going in that direction rapidly anyway. Oculus has already shifted most of it's game development resources away from PCVR.

arsome 5y ago
I'm not so sure, Facebook did just invest a bunch of effort in getting AirLink working to allow wireless PC VR support and they seem to keep improving it.
Kuinox 5y ago
Virtual Desktop run fines and I never needed the Oculus PCVR support.
mmastrac 5y ago
Laws can always be amended.
thebigman433 5y ago
What makes you think theyre dropping PCVR support? They just spent 3 years getting wired and wireless Link working. They clearly want to unify their products into a single hybrid standalone/pcvr lineup. PCVR software sales are just absolutely abysmal, there is no way to make a profit on a large scale app, so theyre only going to invest in AAA content for standalone now.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  Yes, it's the lack of investment and profit potential on PCVR. It also may interest the Oculus founders who want the highest quality experience, but it does not fall in line with Zuck's vision which is a cheap and good enough social VR machine.

SamuelAdams 5y ago

Docking stations and printers too. Here’s a recent HP printer that requires an account. https://reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/pwrgb1/buyer_beware_some_newer_hp_printers_will_not/ https://reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/pwrgb1/buyer_beware_s...

dylan604 5y ago
Thanks. I don't typically read reddit, so I had not seen this. Starting to contemplate getting a new inkjet for the home office. I now have something else to keep in mind during the researching. This plus all of the ink jet forensic marking, I'm leaning towards the extra cost for color laser instead, and definitely not an HP.
- 14 5y ago
  I have the brother 3750 I believe the model is and is great. The starter inks lasted me a long time and I finally bought all new full sized ink I expect they will last years. It was a bit costly to buy all the ink but I know it will last for years and I know if I don’t use it for a few months it will still print perfectly when I decide to. Definitely recommend a brother printer.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    I currently have a B&W brother laser, and it has done everything I have asked it to do. However, I've recently started using specialty paper that this particular model has problems pulling from the paper tray, and using the single sheet manual feeder is guarnteed to pull it through at an angle. I do not judge the printer on this paper. I've used color lasers in the past, but it was a higher end and was very pleased with its results. I like how we've hijacked an oculus thread on printers!!
  - filoleg 5y ago
    Brother printers are something else. After getting tired of having to do major troubleshooting for my printer at least a few times a year and deal with minor annoyances from time to time, I decided to leave my old printer to my parents (as I was doing a cross-country move at the time, so the less I brought with me the easier it would be). As soon as I settled in, I got a Brother MFCL2740DW printer. That was almost 5 years ago. Let me tell you, the longer I have it, the longer it keeps blowing my mind. I've only set it up once, and then forgot about it forever. Since then, I added bajillion different devices, built a new desktop, switched routers multiple times and completely redid my wireless networking, etc. On every new device (including smartphones), without having to install any additional software or screwing around with settings, I can reliably expect to just click "print", and my printer will show up in the list of available printing devices, and it will just work. Toner cartridges last forever and are priced very reasonably. I can simply take the printer, put it wherever I want, and it will just work with any device from which one can print without any extra actions. Normally, a lot of devices start like that at first, and then problems start arising, and things start becoming unreliable due to compatibility issues with newer devices and such, new firmware updates are needed, maybe certain workarounds in settings, etc. But nope, not a single hitch with this one, as it is coming close to 5 years of regular use in many different configurations. And no, I am not getting paid to advertise for Brother printers. I just simply love when a tool is super powerful like that, but also "just works" extremely reliably without any thought needed, very seamlessly and in the background.

akerl_ 5y ago

Why is it desirable for Congress to make laws limiting how electronics manufacturers can design their electronics? If Facebook wants to make a VR headset that requires that you upload a monthly video of you doing the chicken dance, just don’t buy their product. Attempting to use government to make private entities build the kinds of technology you like is a pretty heavy hammer to drop on individual freedoms.

Kaze404 5y ago
Companies are not individuals.
- ksdale 5y ago
  I'm no corporate shill, but corporations are groups of people, so anything you think it's ok to take away from them because they're a group and not a person, you could logically take away from, say, a union or a farmer's market. If it was wise to make that law regarding facebook, would it be wise to make it regarding an individual as well, or should individuals be allowed to do it because they're not groups? And if individuals shouldn't be allowed to do it, then it's not really about the distinction between corporations and individuals.
  - rhacker 5y ago
    So backing up out of that for a second. Are you saying there are individuals (not part of a group, or a corporation) that are dead set on making computer peripherals that require an account?
    - ksdale 5y ago
      Is that relevant? I think the analysis should revolve around whether they should be allowed to, and not whether we can just ban it because nobody wants to do it anyway. I don't think that's a good way to make rules.
  - tpxl 5y ago
    The connection between corps and unions/farmers markets is clear to me, but the jump between unions/farmers markets to individuals is not. Yes, I do think groups should not have rights individuals have. It's more about the scale than the amount of people, and the line between that gets blurred when an individual can control thousands of PCs.

camkego 5y ago

Has anyone else noticed what a large add campaign Facebook has launched featuring Millennials asking for new and re-vamped Internet regulation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kur94OyXf3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kur94OyXf3U What is this all about?

voltaireodactyl 5y ago
My strong suspicion is that the general plan is essentially: - let a whistleblower (who seems intent on describing Facebook employees as smart and humanistic folks, despite those employees designing and maintaining FBs content delivery systems) make a case that Facebook needs government regulation. - agree that such a regulatory agency should be created, and offer FBs assistance in outlining the parameters involved — because who better than the problem to design the solution? - agency is created. Perhaps the whistleblower can even be a high level figure within it, as the face of the issue. - Suddenly FB is no longer liable for anything because they are “adhering to government regulation”. - Regulatory capture ensues as expected. FOR FB this is preferable to thr other options: 1. Calls for FB to be broken up 2. Regulation that FB doesn’t have a primary role in designing.
slim 5y ago
Marketing + regulatory capture. They seem pretty confident any regulation won't mandate they open their social graph to competition
batty_alex 5y ago
Facebook wants to be the ones in the room helping write the new regulations to make sure it works in their favor, mostly

a-dub 5y ago

hmm. it doesn't seem all that different from sony or microsoft subsizing the cost of gaming consoles and then locking down what can run on them so they can recoup those costs by getting a slice of the game sales. nor is it all that different from apple or google dumping millions and millions into ios and android os/base level platform development, software update/delivery infrastructure and proactive platform security and then recouping those costs on sales and in-app purchases through the app stores. it's been going on since the original nintendo entertainment system with its approval process. prior to that was the atari 2600 debacle, where the platform languished and the ecosystem of software was such crap that people just sort of gave up on it. that said, are they a form of monopoly? it certainly amortizes the costs of developing hardware and os platforms to the point that consumers are willing to buy in, but it also results in undue control over the resulting platforms. hard to say... i think it all comes down to how that control is wielded... (and without it, it's the atari 2600 all over again) only alternatives i can think of are to regulate the platforms for fairness or force platform vendors to offer full price/off contract versions of their hardware.

a-dub 5y ago
plus, shrug it seems that locked down platforms present a nice challenge for young tinkerers to break that can ultimately kindle their interests in technology.

sgregnt 5y ago

If for some reason,now or in the future, I prefer my peripherals to be connected to cloud. Your law deprives me of this freedom. Just a thought.

ipaddr 5y ago
There is a balance to achieve. It might be better than facebook forcing a cloud account on everyone.
- sgregnt 5y ago
  I don't think Facebook is forcing anything, any tiny bit. Maybe that's what we disagree about. I think you are 100% free not to use any facebook products.
- sgregnt 5y ago
  While it might sound moderate "..balance to achieve..." in my opinion in this is very dangerous thought... as it assumes a lot of hidden things to name a few: 1. that the balance is the same for different people, 2. that the balance is not evolving over time, 3. that people can vote for "good" politicians to suggest good balance but at the same time can't figure out themselves how and if to use Facebook. 4. That the proper balance can be found at all. 5. That the side effect elsewhere will not bring worse overall outcome. 6. That an alternative better free market solution (better optimal) would not be prevented by getting stuck in a local minima 7. That facebook will not find a way to circumvent the new balance. 8. That it's the best use of regulators involved in it to figure out the best balance rather than thinking of something else 9. That it will not increase the value of lobbying and more...
3np 5y ago
No, it does not. It requires that they should be usable without. Why is that unreasonable?
- sgregnt 5y ago
  Teo out of top of my head: 1. Because they will cost more 2. I don't want my child to connect without me knowing.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

phkahler 5y ago

Oculus Quest is not a peripheral, it's a standalone device. Having an app store is nice, but tying to Facebook is not needed or wanted.

reilly3000 5y ago

I hate to break it to you, but Logitech now runs always-on ‘Cloud Settings’ sync and telemetry software called Logi Options. It comes with a way to use a mouse across devices seamlessly (Flow) which requires low-level networking permissions and a daemon on all participating devices. It’s not required that you have an account or even use the software, but of course they actively push all of the above and require it to use special device features. Razer, Steelseries, and the rest do the same, and I think Razer’s account is mandatory. I don’t like it one bit. Thankfully most of that crap doesn’t work on Linux.

Ph0X 5y ago
> It’s not required that you have an account or even use the software That's the key point. The fact that some people weren't even able to use their Oculus device when FB went down for hours is insane. Imagine not being able to use your mouse or keyboard because Logitech went down. There's a very big difference between an optional cloud system that brings convenience (settings sync) vs a required cloud system that the device cannot be used without. From my understanding, the comment about was specifically trying to write regulation against the latter.
ziml77 5y ago
Razer is even worse than a mandatory account. When you connect a Razer device (including changing the port it's plugged into), Windows will try to execute the Razer software installer. It's really annoying.
- ladberg 5y ago
  To make it worse, the installer that's automatically downloaded and run has admin permissions and could be exploited to gain admin access on any Windows computer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28273283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28273283
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  You can turn off that in Windows Settings

lostmsu 5y ago

Peripheral might be complicated. But I would like to see such a legislation for anything that is Turing-complete and sufficiently performant (e.g. can run Doom at 800x600 32bpp 60FPS).

porknubbins 5y ago

I agree with the spirit of the rule but that seems too restrictive to freedom to contract. I feel like there will always be a market solution for peripherals where someone is selling them unrestricted. With VR is the issue not that the business model itself is still not good so FB was kind of subsidising the Oculus? If VR were highly profitable it seems like other companies with less restrictive terms would come in.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Impossible 5y ago

Quest is basically a game console and not a peripheral. Even "dumb" non-standalone HMDs like Index have complex software stacks for tracking, input and rendering (compositor). HN loves the narrative of a VR device being "just" a monitor but that's really not the case. If this rule is applied to VR as it exists in 2021 (not 2013 DK1 which kind of was a 2nd monitor + HID) then it has to apply to all PCs, game consoles, smartphones, IOT devices etc. I'm not saying that legislation shouldn't happen but it does have ramifications for users and for security. On Quest you could do this, but social features and store might stop working at some point, and newer games and applications would definitely stop working, especially ones that use new features implemented in software like hand tracking. TLDR this legislation could be fine but it would have to target Windows, Android, Steam, Playstation, Mac OS, etc and has ramifications that eventually software might just stop working. It might accelerate the push to move everything to the cloud also and make all devices dumb terminals that play video.