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You already posted about this And yes, as a company offering to help manage the promotional/sales/etc side for you, they can reject you as a customer, there is

You already posted about this And yes, as a company offering to help manage the promotional/sales/etc side for you, they can reject you as a customer, there is no rights that suggest you can force them to sell your product. Just use a different store front - - - Also aside, I believe they have pulled at least one title by Atari, I could look for more but I can't be bothered

imaginationra 5y ago
So you think its ok for a support agent to essentially ban your game at any time for any reason with no recourse?
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  One support agent? eh maybe? Multiple support agents / Escalation? yes. I think that's okay.
  - imaginationra 5y ago
    Ok so what if they collude like humans do? Is that ok? Steam support agents are humans not smart contracts with immutable code.
    - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
      yep thats okay, thats kinda how a business is ran. Most people call them "co-workers" not "colluders"
  - imaginationra 5y ago
    At the point it was "retired" or banned essentially- there was no escalation, no warning and it was through a single agent.
    - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
      Could you post all of your interactions with steam in regards to the build that got your game retired? That would probably help people to know what they are fighting for, if they choose to fight for you I see two staff responses, and an escalation in progress, is that correct?
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        You got it- here you go the entire interaction that led to the game being removed https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ
        imaginationra 5y ago
        What makes this especially odd- I asked around other Steam dev's/forums etc and no one has ever heard of a game in the submission process being "retired" by a support agent like this. Game "retirement" is usually done by the dev when they no longer want to sell or support the game afaik. I don't know but the "game" is an interactive film and perhaps the agent watched the film and had some artistic issue with it? I don't know of course its just all so strange. You can see some of the content here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz2sPMW14AaABAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz...
gentleman11 5y ago
What other store front? Steam owns PC gaming. It's not like getting banned from Walmart where there are other large stores to sell on. If you're not on steam, and you're not Epic Games or The Witcher 3, you don't exist. Even EA relented and put their games on steam despite having a competing store
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  Itch comes to mind, Humble is another
  - gentleman11 5y ago
    Humble mostly sells cd keys to steam games and almost all itch games are free. How is somebody going to pay their bills with that as a marketplace? How easy and cheap do you think game dev is? Do you think that indie devs deserve to be able to pay their bills?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Is it Valve's responsibility to ensure they can pay their bills?
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        Its Valve's responsibility to make sure all dev's on their platform are treated fairly. Do you think this would happen to a major publisher? That support agent would never pull this kind of thing with a major publisher as they would be afraid of losing their job. They are picking on a no-name indie because they know we have no agency on their platform.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      Yes, this is what I am on about. Game dev's need Steam to make a living. I don't think its right to allow steam support to arbitrarily "retire" games at any point in the games lifecycle for any reason of their choosing.
imaginationra 5y ago
Its an idealogical thing- we don't need steam for our livelihood but most game dev's do. I'm assuming that indie dev's don't want to be treated like this but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? 0_0
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  > but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging
  - imaginationra 5y ago
    Are you a bot?
    - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
      No
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        That's what a bot would print.
        okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
        Why ask a question if you don't care about the answer.
        imaginationra 5y ago
        Sorry- I was just trying to be funny- our studio also does comedy ^_^
  - gentleman11 5y ago
imaginationra 5y ago
Also if you haven't been through the Steam submission process- you submit a build- they tell you what is wrong with it- you fix it and resubmit- and thats the normal loop. This one was submit build- issue- fix issue - submit build - game "retired" - dev asks help for support- no answers- asks for more help- account censored. The game not allowed to go through the submission process like normal.
chuckee 5y ago
> there is no rights that suggest you can force them to sell your product. I must have missed where the poster said what Steam did was illegal - could you point it out to me?
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  I never said that the poster said that.
  - chuckee 5y ago
    So why bring up rights?

imaginationra 5y ago

So you think its ok for a support agent to essentially ban your game at any time for any reason with no recourse?

okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
One support agent? eh maybe? Multiple support agents / Escalation? yes. I think that's okay.
- imaginationra 5y ago
  Ok so what if they collude like humans do? Is that ok? Steam support agents are humans not smart contracts with immutable code.
  - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
    yep thats okay, thats kinda how a business is ran. Most people call them "co-workers" not "colluders"
- imaginationra 5y ago
  At the point it was "retired" or banned essentially- there was no escalation, no warning and it was through a single agent.
  - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
    Could you post all of your interactions with steam in regards to the build that got your game retired? That would probably help people to know what they are fighting for, if they choose to fight for you I see two staff responses, and an escalation in progress, is that correct?
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      You got it- here you go the entire interaction that led to the game being removed https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        What makes this especially odd- I asked around other Steam dev's/forums etc and no one has ever heard of a game in the submission process being "retired" by a support agent like this. Game "retirement" is usually done by the dev when they no longer want to sell or support the game afaik. I don't know but the "game" is an interactive film and perhaps the agent watched the film and had some artistic issue with it? I don't know of course its just all so strange. You can see some of the content here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz2sPMW14AaABAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz...

gentleman11 5y ago

What other store front? Steam owns PC gaming. It's not like getting banned from Walmart where there are other large stores to sell on. If you're not on steam, and you're not Epic Games or The Witcher 3, you don't exist. Even EA relented and put their games on steam despite having a competing store

okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
Itch comes to mind, Humble is another
- gentleman11 5y ago
  Humble mostly sells cd keys to steam games and almost all itch games are free. How is somebody going to pay their bills with that as a marketplace? How easy and cheap do you think game dev is? Do you think that indie devs deserve to be able to pay their bills?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Is it Valve's responsibility to ensure they can pay their bills?
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      Its Valve's responsibility to make sure all dev's on their platform are treated fairly. Do you think this would happen to a major publisher? That support agent would never pull this kind of thing with a major publisher as they would be afraid of losing their job. They are picking on a no-name indie because they know we have no agency on their platform.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - imaginationra 5y ago
    Yes, this is what I am on about. Game dev's need Steam to make a living. I don't think its right to allow steam support to arbitrarily "retire" games at any point in the games lifecycle for any reason of their choosing.

imaginationra 5y ago

Its an idealogical thing- we don't need steam for our livelihood but most game dev's do. I'm assuming that indie dev's don't want to be treated like this but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? 0_0

okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
> but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging
- imaginationra 5y ago
  Are you a bot?
  - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
    No
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      That's what a bot would print.
      - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
        Why ask a question if you don't care about the answer.
        imaginationra 5y ago
        Sorry- I was just trying to be funny- our studio also does comedy ^_^
- gentleman11 5y ago

imaginationra 5y ago

Also if you haven't been through the Steam submission process- you submit a build- they tell you what is wrong with it- you fix it and resubmit- and thats the normal loop. This one was submit build- issue- fix issue - submit build - game "retired" - dev asks help for support- no answers- asks for more help- account censored. The game not allowed to go through the submission process like normal.

chuckee 5y ago

> there is no rights that suggest you can force them to sell your product. I must have missed where the poster said what Steam did was illegal - could you point it out to me?

okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
I never said that the poster said that.
- chuckee 5y ago
  So why bring up rights?