5 ms·

Stuff like this is great fun, but if we just don't buy things from known bad actors in the first place, we can save ourselves the trouble of playing whack-a-mol

Stuff like this is great fun, but if we just don't buy things from known bad actors in the first place, we can save ourselves the trouble of playing whack-a-mole.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Agree in general but if the hardware is subsidized and you're able to excise the bad actor's trash from the device, you come out ahead and the company loses a bit.
- ziml77 5y ago
  But it would be much better to support a company that isn't horrible over costing the evil company an amount of money they won't even notice.
dylan604 5y ago
This is similar to iOS or Android. You can stand on your soapbox and preach to the choir, but at the end of the day there is only so many choices. I like this solution because you still get to use the hardware and use the apps, but it denies the overlords of the thing they want the most.
- kova12 5y ago
  There's GrapheneOS
  - whyrusleeping 5y ago
    > GrapheneOS is compatible with several Google Pixel smartphones. That doesn't bode well for things working all that well. As someone who ran linux on chromebook for two years, then on a macbook for three, i'm a bit burnt out on this sort of thing.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      It's like a rite of passage or something to hack and then install your own thing fighting harder than a salmon swimming up stream. There's a lot to be learned in the doing to be sure. It's the full of piss&vinegar stage of life. Eventually, you get tired of the time required to fight it, and just need something to work. Does that mean the man won? Maybe. However, I look at it like I won on finally becoming mature enough to realize that there are things much more important in life than banging my head on that particular brick wall. Just my $0.02 of grandpa ranting. Get off my lawn!
      - dTal 5y ago
        I'm not sure that enjoyment of the latest tech toys is more important than the fight for freedom, to be honest.
        dylan604 5y ago
        If that's the fight you are fighting, then by all means keep up the fight. Being able to do basic computer activities privately is a definite need. Hacking what's essentially a gaming device from FB is just not that critical to me.
        emptysongglass 5y ago
        Every other VR device doesn't require logging on to the greatest destroyer of social cohesion the world has ever seen so I'm not sure what "the chore" here is. Just buy literally any other VR headset that isn't prefixed with the word Oculus.
      - ekianjo 5y ago
        > need something to work things can work and respect your freedom at the same time. its not like either or.
        dTal 5y ago
        It is always nice when the idealistic choice lines up with the exciting, or pragmatic choice. Sadly, in the world of hardware at least, this is seldom the case.
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    ...which is doomed to death whenever Google stops with the security updates for the very specific hardware it runs on. In fairness, IIRC, this is actually the fault of Qualcomm providing, and eventually ceasing to provide, Google with hardware security updates of some sort. The point is that these fun projects to circumvent baked-in awfulness are practically destined to stop working properly due to the nature of the hardware itself. It's always better, if possible, to support the non-awful varietal. In this case, I guess that's "almost any other VR headset, lacking a login requirement". Does Steam count?
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      So on phone the only real alternative is SailFishOS ?
      - opan 5y ago
        Check out postmarketOS, Mobian, and NixOS Mobile. They support some OnePlus phones and a few others in addition to the PinePhone and Librem 5. pmOS has the most devices supported (although amount of stuff working varies per device). Sailfish uses a proprietary UI, so I hesitate to recommend it. There's an alternative that replaces their UI, can't recall the name right now.
        khimaros 5y ago
        Nemo
        ekianjo 5y ago
        all the things you mentioned are hardly production ready though. PostmarketOS compatibility has issues on tons of devices, and Mobian can't run much applications anyway.
        m4rtink 5y ago
        Indeed, eventually a fully open mature mobile distro will replace Sailfish OS, but at the moment its the only reasonably open mobile OS fit for daily use.
  - gremloni 5y ago
    How is this a resonable option? There are two mature ecosystems and really nothing can compare right now.
    - kova12 5y ago
      And how do you think we will be getting third mature ecosystem if we never try anything? Complaining is easy
      - gremloni 5y ago
        Yeah the whole chicken and the egg thing. I don’t know but I don’t want to have a hamstrung ecosystem right now
      - dylan604 5y ago
        Someone with deep pockets to counter the PR machine that is Apple. That's the only way. Of course, this means having an actual working product for that PR to promote. It also means having a way of installing it without some scary voiding warranty notice.
        gremloni 5y ago
        I don’t think apple should go anywhere. There should just be more than 2 options
- marticode 5y ago
  This is not quite similar because there are VR headsets from several manufacturers that don't come with a mandatory social network login attached. (in fact FB is the only one that does) Even with Android vs iOS, they aren't quite the same because Android clearly gives you more control and freedom as a consumer. If you care about any of this at least don't buy the worse offender.
diskzero 5y ago
I agree with you and I would really like to buy VR hardware from a good actor, but they are few and far between. This is great for now for rescuing hardware that might be going straight to the landfill or for those who finally understand the implication of buying the hardware in the first place.
slim 5y ago
What if bad actor took your family and friends as hostages and made them beg you to join them.
makeitdouble 5y ago
This would be great if there was any hope to see a better actor coming in. Currently buying a Quest 2 equivalent from a "good" actor is just thought exercise. Looking at Vive, they don't seem ready to enter the regular consumer market anytime soon. Google and Samsung threw the towel long ago. I'm not sure Microsoft could be a better actor than Facebook if they wanted to (remember it all came down on us way after the devices were sold). Then chances are Facebook would also kill any incoming competitor in the egg.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  > I'm not sure Microsoft could be a better actor than Facebook if they wanted to (remember it all came down on us way after the devices were sold). Huh?
- zucker42 5y ago
  There is a good guy in the space already it's Valve. The Index was good, and there are rumors that they are developing their own standalone VR headset (search "Deckard") which would theoretically compete directly with Quest 2.
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    I agree with Valve's position as an alternative...but the Index is priced 10k+ so targeted a completely different public, and Deckard is only rumored as far as I know. We have no idea if/when/how it will be released, or if they'll be able to reach a competitive price. I wish them to succeed, but wouldn't count on it until we have actual release info. It actually reminds me that Sony is rumored to release a Playstation VR2, which might be an interesting, though not standalone, as the PSVR 1 was decently good. Also, I only realized while checking Valve's headset that HTC had a consumer grade headset gone public yesterday, though it doesn't have controllers and its future is a bit murky at this point.
    - RealityVoid 5y ago
      The index is ~1k, I don't know where you got the 10k figure from.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Stuff like this is great fun, but if we just don't buy things from known bad actors in the first place, we can save ourselves the trouble of playing whack-a-mole.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Agree in general but if the hardware is subsidized and you're able to excise the bad actor's trash from the device, you come out ahead and the company loses a bit.

ziml77 5y ago
But it would be much better to support a company that isn't horrible over costing the evil company an amount of money they won't even notice.

dylan604 5y ago

This is similar to iOS or Android. You can stand on your soapbox and preach to the choir, but at the end of the day there is only so many choices. I like this solution because you still get to use the hardware and use the apps, but it denies the overlords of the thing they want the most.

kova12 5y ago
There's GrapheneOS
- whyrusleeping 5y ago
  > GrapheneOS is compatible with several Google Pixel smartphones. That doesn't bode well for things working all that well. As someone who ran linux on chromebook for two years, then on a macbook for three, i'm a bit burnt out on this sort of thing.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    It's like a rite of passage or something to hack and then install your own thing fighting harder than a salmon swimming up stream. There's a lot to be learned in the doing to be sure. It's the full of piss&vinegar stage of life. Eventually, you get tired of the time required to fight it, and just need something to work. Does that mean the man won? Maybe. However, I look at it like I won on finally becoming mature enough to realize that there are things much more important in life than banging my head on that particular brick wall. Just my $0.02 of grandpa ranting. Get off my lawn!
    - dTal 5y ago
      I'm not sure that enjoyment of the latest tech toys is more important than the fight for freedom, to be honest.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        If that's the fight you are fighting, then by all means keep up the fight. Being able to do basic computer activities privately is a definite need. Hacking what's essentially a gaming device from FB is just not that critical to me.
        emptysongglass 5y ago
        Every other VR device doesn't require logging on to the greatest destroyer of social cohesion the world has ever seen so I'm not sure what "the chore" here is. Just buy literally any other VR headset that isn't prefixed with the word Oculus.
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      > need something to work things can work and respect your freedom at the same time. its not like either or.
      - dTal 5y ago
        It is always nice when the idealistic choice lines up with the exciting, or pragmatic choice. Sadly, in the world of hardware at least, this is seldom the case.
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  ...which is doomed to death whenever Google stops with the security updates for the very specific hardware it runs on. In fairness, IIRC, this is actually the fault of Qualcomm providing, and eventually ceasing to provide, Google with hardware security updates of some sort. The point is that these fun projects to circumvent baked-in awfulness are practically destined to stop working properly due to the nature of the hardware itself. It's always better, if possible, to support the non-awful varietal. In this case, I guess that's "almost any other VR headset, lacking a login requirement". Does Steam count?
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    So on phone the only real alternative is SailFishOS ?
    - opan 5y ago
      Check out postmarketOS, Mobian, and NixOS Mobile. They support some OnePlus phones and a few others in addition to the PinePhone and Librem 5. pmOS has the most devices supported (although amount of stuff working varies per device). Sailfish uses a proprietary UI, so I hesitate to recommend it. There's an alternative that replaces their UI, can't recall the name right now.
      - khimaros 5y ago
        Nemo
      - ekianjo 5y ago
        all the things you mentioned are hardly production ready though. PostmarketOS compatibility has issues on tons of devices, and Mobian can't run much applications anyway.
      - m4rtink 5y ago
        Indeed, eventually a fully open mature mobile distro will replace Sailfish OS, but at the moment its the only reasonably open mobile OS fit for daily use.
- gremloni 5y ago
  How is this a resonable option? There are two mature ecosystems and really nothing can compare right now.
  - kova12 5y ago
    And how do you think we will be getting third mature ecosystem if we never try anything? Complaining is easy
    - gremloni 5y ago
      Yeah the whole chicken and the egg thing. I don’t know but I don’t want to have a hamstrung ecosystem right now
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Someone with deep pockets to counter the PR machine that is Apple. That's the only way. Of course, this means having an actual working product for that PR to promote. It also means having a way of installing it without some scary voiding warranty notice.
      - gremloni 5y ago
        I don’t think apple should go anywhere. There should just be more than 2 options
marticode 5y ago
This is not quite similar because there are VR headsets from several manufacturers that don't come with a mandatory social network login attached. (in fact FB is the only one that does) Even with Android vs iOS, they aren't quite the same because Android clearly gives you more control and freedom as a consumer. If you care about any of this at least don't buy the worse offender.

diskzero 5y ago

I agree with you and I would really like to buy VR hardware from a good actor, but they are few and far between. This is great for now for rescuing hardware that might be going straight to the landfill or for those who finally understand the implication of buying the hardware in the first place.

slim 5y ago

What if bad actor took your family and friends as hostages and made them beg you to join them.

makeitdouble 5y ago

This would be great if there was any hope to see a better actor coming in. Currently buying a Quest 2 equivalent from a "good" actor is just thought exercise. Looking at Vive, they don't seem ready to enter the regular consumer market anytime soon. Google and Samsung threw the towel long ago. I'm not sure Microsoft could be a better actor than Facebook if they wanted to (remember it all came down on us way after the devices were sold). Then chances are Facebook would also kill any incoming competitor in the egg.

HWR_14 5y ago
> I'm not sure Microsoft could be a better actor than Facebook if they wanted to (remember it all came down on us way after the devices were sold). Huh?
zucker42 5y ago
There is a good guy in the space already it's Valve. The Index was good, and there are rumors that they are developing their own standalone VR headset (search "Deckard") which would theoretically compete directly with Quest 2.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  I agree with Valve's position as an alternative...but the Index is priced 10k+ so targeted a completely different public, and Deckard is only rumored as far as I know. We have no idea if/when/how it will be released, or if they'll be able to reach a competitive price. I wish them to succeed, but wouldn't count on it until we have actual release info. It actually reminds me that Sony is rumored to release a Playstation VR2, which might be an interesting, though not standalone, as the PSVR 1 was decently good. Also, I only realized while checking Valve's headset that HTC had a consumer grade headset gone public yesterday, though it doesn't have controllers and its future is a bit murky at this point.
  - RealityVoid 5y ago
    The index is ~1k, I don't know where you got the 10k figure from.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]