5 ms·

TIL: Steam support can “retire” any indie game at any point, then censor the dev

Steam support first "retired" our indie game in the submission process and has now put our account on "cooldown" for 30 days for trying to bring the issue to attention. They have in effect banned the game then censored the developer. They wouldn't dare do this to a major publisher. If you know any dev's with Steam games send the below link to them as they could help all us indie dev's out by telling Valve that this is unacceptable behavior. https://imaginationrabbit.substack.com/p/if-you-know-any-steam-dev-with-spines Thank you.

ev1 5y ago
Steam doesn't do crypto, and probably has regulatory BS tied to it. All I see is harassment of front line support over policies they don't have control over. They told you nicely and are offering to refund you. You decide to harass them. Is there something I'm missing? Private businesses can pick and choose who they want to do business with. PC software doesn't require Steam.
okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
You already posted about this And yes, as a company offering to help manage the promotional/sales/etc side for you, they can reject you as a customer, there is no rights that suggest you can force them to sell your product. Just use a different store front - - - Also aside, I believe they have pulled at least one title by Atari, I could look for more but I can't be bothered
- imaginationra 5y ago
  So you think its ok for a support agent to essentially ban your game at any time for any reason with no recourse?
  - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
    One support agent? eh maybe? Multiple support agents / Escalation? yes. I think that's okay.
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      Ok so what if they collude like humans do? Is that ok? Steam support agents are humans not smart contracts with immutable code.
      - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
        yep thats okay, thats kinda how a business is ran. Most people call them "co-workers" not "colluders"
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      At the point it was "retired" or banned essentially- there was no escalation, no warning and it was through a single agent.
      - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
        Could you post all of your interactions with steam in regards to the build that got your game retired? That would probably help people to know what they are fighting for, if they choose to fight for you I see two staff responses, and an escalation in progress, is that correct?
        imaginationra 5y ago
        You got it- here you go the entire interaction that led to the game being removed https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ
        imaginationra 5y ago
        What makes this especially odd- I asked around other Steam dev's/forums etc and no one has ever heard of a game in the submission process being "retired" by a support agent like this. Game "retirement" is usually done by the dev when they no longer want to sell or support the game afaik. I don't know but the "game" is an interactive film and perhaps the agent watched the film and had some artistic issue with it? I don't know of course its just all so strange. You can see some of the content here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz2sPMW14AaABAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz...
- gentleman11 5y ago
  What other store front? Steam owns PC gaming. It's not like getting banned from Walmart where there are other large stores to sell on. If you're not on steam, and you're not Epic Games or The Witcher 3, you don't exist. Even EA relented and put their games on steam despite having a competing store
  - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
    Itch comes to mind, Humble is another
    - gentleman11 5y ago
      Humble mostly sells cd keys to steam games and almost all itch games are free. How is somebody going to pay their bills with that as a marketplace? How easy and cheap do you think game dev is? Do you think that indie devs deserve to be able to pay their bills?
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Is it Valve's responsibility to ensure they can pay their bills?
        imaginationra 5y ago
        Its Valve's responsibility to make sure all dev's on their platform are treated fairly. Do you think this would happen to a major publisher? That support agent would never pull this kind of thing with a major publisher as they would be afraid of losing their job. They are picking on a no-name indie because they know we have no agency on their platform.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        Yes, this is what I am on about. Game dev's need Steam to make a living. I don't think its right to allow steam support to arbitrarily "retire" games at any point in the games lifecycle for any reason of their choosing.
- imaginationra 5y ago
  Its an idealogical thing- we don't need steam for our livelihood but most game dev's do. I'm assuming that indie dev's don't want to be treated like this but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? 0_0
  - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
    > but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      Are you a bot?
      - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
        No
        imaginationra 5y ago
        That's what a bot would print.
        okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
        Why ask a question if you don't care about the answer.
        imaginationra 5y ago
        Sorry- I was just trying to be funny- our studio also does comedy ^_^
    - gentleman11 5y ago
- imaginationra 5y ago
  Also if you haven't been through the Steam submission process- you submit a build- they tell you what is wrong with it- you fix it and resubmit- and thats the normal loop. This one was submit build- issue- fix issue - submit build - game "retired" - dev asks help for support- no answers- asks for more help- account censored. The game not allowed to go through the submission process like normal.
- chuckee 5y ago
  > there is no rights that suggest you can force them to sell your product. I must have missed where the poster said what Steam did was illegal - could you point it out to me?
  - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
    I never said that the poster said that.
    - chuckee 5y ago
      So why bring up rights?
gentleman11 5y ago
What is an account 'cooldown' ?
- imaginationra 5y ago
  You are unable to send help requests to steam support for 30 days it seems. These help requests are the only way for a dev to communicate with the people who control your game.
hertzrat 5y ago
Best of luck getting in contact with somebody who can review this!
- imaginationra 5y ago
  Thank you- yeh the steam "support" process is very frustrating 0_0 If we can't get through to Steam we'll just release the "game" for free on internet archive or something. This isn't about money for us but we know a lot of dev's who we don't want to have to be treated like this.
codingdave 5y ago
Can you clarify something? From your link, it appears that they told you they have a policy against games with crypto or NFTs, and is trying to refund you the fees. You then spammed them, so they politely replied not to do that, and consolidated the discussion in a single ticket. Are you saying your game does not have crypto or NFTs, and their evaluation was mistaken? Because this goes one of two ways - either they are being complete jerks because of a mistake, or you are. Not sure which without more info.
- imaginationra 5y ago
  There are several issues here- in the normal submission process if your game/app has issues they notify you- you remove it and resubmit- my store page had external urls in it which is against their written policy- they let me know and I removed them and resubmitted and there was no issue- I was a given a chance to remove the urls that are against their policy- With the Nft issue. 1) there is nothing in their written policy about Nft's so a dev has no guidance on the issue and 2) I was never given a chance to remove the two Qr codes in the game- I found four separate games live on Steam with crypto/nft integration where you can buy/sell Nft's in game. Mine just had 2 QR codes- one url went to the contract address for the erc721 token- the other was a url to a rarible page for the Nft. So this makes no sense to me. I spammed them after 5 days and no replies- the release deadline was/is set for Oct 29th- Steam requires two weeks lead time after approval for your page to go live. I started the approval process October 2nd. If you google/duckduckgo "steam support terrible" you'll find several articles going to back to 2015 and further about how bad their support is. Up until this point with this game and our last game that is live on Steam my experience with Steam support has been great so this comes out of nowhere for me.

ev1 5y ago

Steam doesn't do crypto, and probably has regulatory BS tied to it. All I see is harassment of front line support over policies they don't have control over. They told you nicely and are offering to refund you. You decide to harass them. Is there something I'm missing? Private businesses can pick and choose who they want to do business with. PC software doesn't require Steam.

okdjnfweonfe 5y ago

You already posted about this And yes, as a company offering to help manage the promotional/sales/etc side for you, they can reject you as a customer, there is no rights that suggest you can force them to sell your product. Just use a different store front - - - Also aside, I believe they have pulled at least one title by Atari, I could look for more but I can't be bothered

imaginationra 5y ago
So you think its ok for a support agent to essentially ban your game at any time for any reason with no recourse?
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  One support agent? eh maybe? Multiple support agents / Escalation? yes. I think that's okay.
  - imaginationra 5y ago
    Ok so what if they collude like humans do? Is that ok? Steam support agents are humans not smart contracts with immutable code.
    - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
      yep thats okay, thats kinda how a business is ran. Most people call them "co-workers" not "colluders"
  - imaginationra 5y ago
    At the point it was "retired" or banned essentially- there was no escalation, no warning and it was through a single agent.
    - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
      Could you post all of your interactions with steam in regards to the build that got your game retired? That would probably help people to know what they are fighting for, if they choose to fight for you I see two staff responses, and an escalation in progress, is that correct?
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        You got it- here you go the entire interaction that led to the game being removed https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ https://imgur.com/a/F9jIsuJ
        imaginationra 5y ago
        What makes this especially odd- I asked around other Steam dev's/forums etc and no one has ever heard of a game in the submission process being "retired" by a support agent like this. Game "retirement" is usually done by the dev when they no longer want to sell or support the game afaik. I don't know but the "game" is an interactive film and perhaps the agent watched the film and had some artistic issue with it? I don't know of course its just all so strange. You can see some of the content here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz2sPMW14AaABAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9gY5SrCrU&lc=UgxZs7qsDVGaz...
gentleman11 5y ago
What other store front? Steam owns PC gaming. It's not like getting banned from Walmart where there are other large stores to sell on. If you're not on steam, and you're not Epic Games or The Witcher 3, you don't exist. Even EA relented and put their games on steam despite having a competing store
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  Itch comes to mind, Humble is another
  - gentleman11 5y ago
    Humble mostly sells cd keys to steam games and almost all itch games are free. How is somebody going to pay their bills with that as a marketplace? How easy and cheap do you think game dev is? Do you think that indie devs deserve to be able to pay their bills?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Is it Valve's responsibility to ensure they can pay their bills?
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        Its Valve's responsibility to make sure all dev's on their platform are treated fairly. Do you think this would happen to a major publisher? That support agent would never pull this kind of thing with a major publisher as they would be afraid of losing their job. They are picking on a no-name indie because they know we have no agency on their platform.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - imaginationra 5y ago
      Yes, this is what I am on about. Game dev's need Steam to make a living. I don't think its right to allow steam support to arbitrarily "retire" games at any point in the games lifecycle for any reason of their choosing.
imaginationra 5y ago
Its an idealogical thing- we don't need steam for our livelihood but most game dev's do. I'm assuming that indie dev's don't want to be treated like this but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? 0_0
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  > but maybe most all of their backs are already broken and they just take being treated like that? https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging
  - imaginationra 5y ago
    Are you a bot?
    - okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
      No
      - imaginationra 5y ago
        That's what a bot would print.
        okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
        Why ask a question if you don't care about the answer.
        imaginationra 5y ago
        Sorry- I was just trying to be funny- our studio also does comedy ^_^
  - gentleman11 5y ago
imaginationra 5y ago
Also if you haven't been through the Steam submission process- you submit a build- they tell you what is wrong with it- you fix it and resubmit- and thats the normal loop. This one was submit build- issue- fix issue - submit build - game "retired" - dev asks help for support- no answers- asks for more help- account censored. The game not allowed to go through the submission process like normal.
chuckee 5y ago
> there is no rights that suggest you can force them to sell your product. I must have missed where the poster said what Steam did was illegal - could you point it out to me?
- okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
  I never said that the poster said that.
  - chuckee 5y ago
    So why bring up rights?

gentleman11 5y ago

What is an account 'cooldown' ?

imaginationra 5y ago
You are unable to send help requests to steam support for 30 days it seems. These help requests are the only way for a dev to communicate with the people who control your game.

hertzrat 5y ago

Best of luck getting in contact with somebody who can review this!

imaginationra 5y ago
Thank you- yeh the steam "support" process is very frustrating 0_0 If we can't get through to Steam we'll just release the "game" for free on internet archive or something. This isn't about money for us but we know a lot of dev's who we don't want to have to be treated like this.

codingdave 5y ago

Can you clarify something? From your link, it appears that they told you they have a policy against games with crypto or NFTs, and is trying to refund you the fees. You then spammed them, so they politely replied not to do that, and consolidated the discussion in a single ticket. Are you saying your game does not have crypto or NFTs, and their evaluation was mistaken? Because this goes one of two ways - either they are being complete jerks because of a mistake, or you are. Not sure which without more info.

imaginationra 5y ago
There are several issues here- in the normal submission process if your game/app has issues they notify you- you remove it and resubmit- my store page had external urls in it which is against their written policy- they let me know and I removed them and resubmitted and there was no issue- I was a given a chance to remove the urls that are against their policy- With the Nft issue. 1) there is nothing in their written policy about Nft's so a dev has no guidance on the issue and 2) I was never given a chance to remove the two Qr codes in the game- I found four separate games live on Steam with crypto/nft integration where you can buy/sell Nft's in game. Mine just had 2 QR codes- one url went to the contract address for the erc721 token- the other was a url to a rarible page for the Nft. So this makes no sense to me. I spammed them after 5 days and no replies- the release deadline was/is set for Oct 29th- Steam requires two weeks lead time after approval for your page to go live. I started the approval process October 2nd. If you google/duckduckgo "steam support terrible" you'll find several articles going to back to 2015 and further about how bad their support is. Up until this point with this game and our last game that is live on Steam my experience with Steam support has been great so this comes out of nowhere for me.