4 ms·

>"You can’t do anything in most European countries without your ID." That's the case in America, too.

antonvs 5y ago
The difference is that in the US there's no standard ID that's suitable for voting, that everyone has. Not everyone has a driver's license. It's possible to get a non-driver ID from the motor vehicle department in most states, but not everyone without a driver's license has this either. There's also no federal ID, other than a passport, which a large number (majority?) of people don't have. This is a big part of the reason why separating voter registration from voting makes sense in the US. Voter registration allows identity to be confirmed using a variety of documents, which would be less practical to check at polling time. The "solution" to this (assuming a solution is needed, which no-one seems to be able to justify well) is to have a federal ID or a federal ID standard (like Real ID), coupled with a requirement that every citizen has such an ID. It's amusing that conservatives are the ones pushing for this "papers please" approach. Apparently their fear of imaginary voter fraud by imaginary immigrants outweighs their fear of a new federal government-imposed requirement that impacts their precious "freedoms".
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  I'm in favor of a Federal ID. I've never understood the opposition to it, especially considering each of us already has a few ID numbers issued to us by different federal agencies. >"It's amusing that conservatives are the ones pushing for this "papers please" approach. Apparently their fear of imaginary voter fraud by imaginary immigrants outweighs their fear of a new federal government-imposed requirement that impacts their precious "freedoms". This is some really snide rhetoric.
  - antonvs 5y ago
    It's snide because it's identifying a huge, irrational hypocrisy in what's supposedly important to those people. > I'm in favor of a Federal ID But there isn't one now. This means that your original point about the case with IDs in America being similar to Europe is not actually relevant here. In any case, what problem do you think requiring ID at time of voting is solving?
    - BitwiseFool 5y ago
      What I was getting at is, you need an ID card to do many things in America, mostly related to private business and civil services. You need one to open a bank account, doctors offices scan your ID card, you need one to pick up certain prescriptions, etc.. The idea that getting an ID to vote is some onerous burden doesn't hold up when you realize people pretty much need an ID during the other 729 days between election days in a two year cycle. I think a Federal ID would be better for record-keeping, but even without one, people really should have to provide a robust identity verification document to vote. If someone just needs to show up and say "I am so-and-so" and doesn't need to provide anything but a signature, that doesn't seem secure at all. Election fraud Chicago style: Illinois’ decades-old notoriety for election corruption is legendary https://www.salon.com/2016/02/14/election_fraud_chicago_style_illinois_decades_old_notoriety_for_election_corruption_is_legendary/ https://www.salon.com/2016/02/14/election_fraud_chicago_styl...

The difference is that in the US there's no standard ID that's suitable for voting, that everyone has. Not everyone has a driver's license. It's possible to get a non-driver ID from the motor vehicle department in most states, but not everyone without a driver's license has this either. There's also no federal ID, other than a passport, which a large number (majority?) of people don't have. This is a big part of the reason why separating voter registration from voting makes sense in the US. Voter registration allows identity to be confirmed using a variety of documents, which would be less practical to check at polling time. The "solution" to this (assuming a solution is needed, which no-one seems to be able to justify well) is to have a federal ID or a federal ID standard (like Real ID), coupled with a requirement that every citizen has such an ID. It's amusing that conservatives are the ones pushing for this "papers please" approach. Apparently their fear of imaginary voter fraud by imaginary immigrants outweighs their fear of a new federal government-imposed requirement that impacts their precious "freedoms".

BitwiseFool 5y ago
I'm in favor of a Federal ID. I've never understood the opposition to it, especially considering each of us already has a few ID numbers issued to us by different federal agencies. >"It's amusing that conservatives are the ones pushing for this "papers please" approach. Apparently their fear of imaginary voter fraud by imaginary immigrants outweighs their fear of a new federal government-imposed requirement that impacts their precious "freedoms". This is some really snide rhetoric.
- antonvs 5y ago
  It's snide because it's identifying a huge, irrational hypocrisy in what's supposedly important to those people. > I'm in favor of a Federal ID But there isn't one now. This means that your original point about the case with IDs in America being similar to Europe is not actually relevant here. In any case, what problem do you think requiring ID at time of voting is solving?
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    What I was getting at is, you need an ID card to do many things in America, mostly related to private business and civil services. You need one to open a bank account, doctors offices scan your ID card, you need one to pick up certain prescriptions, etc.. The idea that getting an ID to vote is some onerous burden doesn't hold up when you realize people pretty much need an ID during the other 729 days between election days in a two year cycle. I think a Federal ID would be better for record-keeping, but even without one, people really should have to provide a robust identity verification document to vote. If someone just needs to show up and say "I am so-and-so" and doesn't need to provide anything but a signature, that doesn't seem secure at all. Election fraud Chicago style: Illinois’ decades-old notoriety for election corruption is legendary https://www.salon.com/2016/02/14/election_fraud_chicago_style_illinois_decades_old_notoriety_for_election_corruption_is_legendary/ https://www.salon.com/2016/02/14/election_fraud_chicago_styl...