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> refuse to accept college IDs as valid for voting, even those issued by the state government because it's a state school I mean, yeah, you don't have to be a

> refuse to accept college IDs as valid for voting, even those issued by the state government because it's a state school I mean, yeah, you don't have to be a resident of the state or even a citizen to go to a university in the US.

ceejayoz 5y ago
You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. Doesn't matter if you're a resident of the state. https://help.vote.org/article/17-i-am-a-college-student-should-i-register-at-home-or-where-i-go-to-school https://help.vote.org/article/17-i-am-a-college-student-shou... > The choice is legally yours. You have dual residency, so you can register back home or on campus as long as you don't register to vote in both states. You can use our Voter Registration Tool to register to vote in less than 2 minutes.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  > You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. This is the exact reason that issuing indistinguishable driver's licenses to non-citizens was controversial. > Doesn't matter if you're a resident of the state. The point is that maybe it should. It's reasonable to say that people should vote in the place where they're a permanent resident and not somewhere they're likely not going to reside by the end of the term of office for the election in question. It's not as if they can't vote, they can vote where they're actually from. Or demonstrate the intent to move to the state where they want to vote by getting a state ID there.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > This is the exact reason that issuing indistinguishable driver's licenses to non-citizens was controversial. I don't think it's ever been controversial to permit permanent residents to have drivers' licenses.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > This is the exact reason that issuing indistinguishable driver's licenses to non-citizens was controversial. No, it wasn't. Because nondistinguishable licenses for immigrants had been issued for generations when the controversy, which was about licenses issued to people without valid immigration status, erupted.
    - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
      Don't be pedantic, you can see what I'm getting at here. A lot more US citizens have a driver's license than a passport. It's the most common form of identification and if it doesn't specify citizenship then there will be millions of people who don't have any picture ID that can prove their citizenship status. That problem could easily be solved by specifying whether you're a citizen on your driver's license. It's a poor excuse to extend the problem to other forms of ID that don't prove citizenship status.
      - Talanes 5y ago
        It was literally not clear until THIS comment that you were just discussing how you think things should have been designed, and not talking about how things actually work.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Don't be pedantic, you can see what I'm getting at here No, I don't. Because there is no reasonable on topic argument you could be getting at. > A lot more US citizens have a driver's license than a passport. It's the most common form of identification and if it doesn't specify citizenship then there will be millions of people who don't have any picture ID that can prove their citizenship status. Which is fine in the context of voter ID, because presenting ID to vote is notionally to confirm that the person presenting to vote is the person registered (authentication), not that the person registered is allowed to vote (authorization). Authorization of registered voters and removal/disqualification of unauthorized voters is, even in Voter ID systems and proposals, handled separately from voter ID, typically by the same kind of processes used without voter ID.
  - tzs 5y ago
    > The point is that maybe it should. It's reasonable to say that people should vote in the place where they're a permanent resident and not somewhere they're likely not going to reside by the end of the term of office for the election in question. That doesn't really have anything to do with voter ID at the polls, because the point of voter ID at the polls is not to prove that you are eligible to vote. Proof of eligibility should be taken care of when you register to vote. The point of ID at the polls is to show that you are the person who you claim to be, so that the poll workers can check to see if you are on the registered voter list.
- staysafeanon 5y ago
  >You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. A driver's license proves state residency (one of the requirements needed to vote), a student ID does not.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Reread my comment. I cited a source indicating college students have the right to register to vote where their school is located. Neither a school ID nor a drivers’ license says anything about citizenship. They’re the same in that regard.
    - staysafeanon 5y ago
      >I cited a source indicating college students have the right to register to vote where their school is located. That's not what that says. Students can proclaim residency in the state they are attending school, yes. That also means in Texas you have 30 days to register your car, 90 days to change over to a Texas driver's license, etc. >Neither a school ID nor a drivers’ license says anything about citizenship. They’re the same in that regard. We're not talking about citizenship, we're talking about residency. A student ID does not prove state residency, so it does not past muster whatsoever. Texas has legal explanation covering this specific scenario: https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/elo/gsc1.pdf https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/elo/gsc1.pdf I'll state it again: a student ID does not prove residency.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        A student ID proves identity. The comment upthread I initially replied to stated student IDs aren't appropriate because they don't demonstrate citizenship; I pointed out neither does a drivers' license. The appropriate time to look at residency/citizenship is at the voter registration step. This is already done!
        staysafeanon 5y ago
        >A student ID proves identity. Except student IDs don't even do that. They prove your student status, not state resident identity. That's why you can't use student IDs to buy alcohol, board a plane, or purchase a firearm. Voting and buying guns are both constitutionally guaranteed rights. Are you OK with people buying guns with student IDs? If you are, at least you're being consistent. Many student IDs are not even issued by the states (private schools). Also, there are hundreds of schools per state, being a student at Piney Woods Community College isn't easily verifiable if it's even in the state. >The comment upthread I initially replied to stated student IDs aren't appropriate because they don't demonstrate citizenship Nor do they demonstrate residency, nor are they valid for a number of other rights and privileges so it holds that they're not accepted. >I pointed out neither does a drivers' license. Which is true, but not what I stated above. >The appropriate time to look at residency/citizenship is at the voter registration step. This is already done! Some states have same day registration so it is not already done. Nonetheless, a student ID is a poor ID for exercising a person's right to vote.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  > You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. 34 states require a birth certificate or proof of legal residency. 16 states do not require the above, but that does not mean that no identification at all is required.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Residency isn’t citizenship.
michaelt 5y ago
Right, but voter ID isn't to prove you have the right to vote - that happens at voter registration. The state already knows John Jones, born 1st January 1970, is eligible to vote - I merely have to prove that I am John Jones, born 1st January 1970.
- Amezarak 5y ago
  > The state already knows John Jones, born 1st January 1970, is eligible to vote It actually does not know this. This is a very hard problem to solve in the US. There can be positive evidence of this (John Jones has been a resident of California since birth, has a birth certificate (state document) and a Social Security (federal) number reflecting that), but John Jones may have been born in PA with no Social Security number or birth certificate at all and be a current resident of California, having moved there last year, and a perfectly legitimate US citizen eligible to vote in California for local, state, and federal offices. There is no national US citizen registry, mostly for historical reasons, and making one is a total political nonstarter. Further, states are individually responsible for determining if someone is probably an eligible voter, and so there’s different processes and checks in place depending on the state.
  - mijamo 5y ago
    What about for taxes? The UD has a reputation of being pretty good at tracking their citizens even outside the US to get their taxes.
    - munk-a 5y ago
      All US tax payers have a tax payer ID - attempting to use that for anything else would likely be shut down really quickly by republicans.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > All US tax payers have a tax payer ID - attempting to use that for anything else would likely be shut down really quickly by republicans. For most taxpayers, that's the SSN, and its widely used for other purposes. Republicans mostly seem to have a problem when people point out that their incompetence is causing them to leak publicly, e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28867562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28867562
adrianmonk 5y ago
It's authentication vs. authorization just like with computer software. You go to vote. They check ID to determine whether the person standing there is who they claim to be. Then they check the voter registration rolls to see if that person is eligible to vote.

ceejayoz 5y ago

You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. Doesn't matter if you're a resident of the state. https://help.vote.org/article/17-i-am-a-college-student-should-i-register-at-home-or-where-i-go-to-school https://help.vote.org/article/17-i-am-a-college-student-shou... > The choice is legally yours. You have dual residency, so you can register back home or on campus as long as you don't register to vote in both states. You can use our Voter Registration Tool to register to vote in less than 2 minutes.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. This is the exact reason that issuing indistinguishable driver's licenses to non-citizens was controversial. > Doesn't matter if you're a resident of the state. The point is that maybe it should. It's reasonable to say that people should vote in the place where they're a permanent resident and not somewhere they're likely not going to reside by the end of the term of office for the election in question. It's not as if they can't vote, they can vote where they're actually from. Or demonstrate the intent to move to the state where they want to vote by getting a state ID there.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > This is the exact reason that issuing indistinguishable driver's licenses to non-citizens was controversial. I don't think it's ever been controversial to permit permanent residents to have drivers' licenses.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > This is the exact reason that issuing indistinguishable driver's licenses to non-citizens was controversial. No, it wasn't. Because nondistinguishable licenses for immigrants had been issued for generations when the controversy, which was about licenses issued to people without valid immigration status, erupted.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    Don't be pedantic, you can see what I'm getting at here. A lot more US citizens have a driver's license than a passport. It's the most common form of identification and if it doesn't specify citizenship then there will be millions of people who don't have any picture ID that can prove their citizenship status. That problem could easily be solved by specifying whether you're a citizen on your driver's license. It's a poor excuse to extend the problem to other forms of ID that don't prove citizenship status.
    - Talanes 5y ago
      It was literally not clear until THIS comment that you were just discussing how you think things should have been designed, and not talking about how things actually work.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Don't be pedantic, you can see what I'm getting at here No, I don't. Because there is no reasonable on topic argument you could be getting at. > A lot more US citizens have a driver's license than a passport. It's the most common form of identification and if it doesn't specify citizenship then there will be millions of people who don't have any picture ID that can prove their citizenship status. Which is fine in the context of voter ID, because presenting ID to vote is notionally to confirm that the person presenting to vote is the person registered (authentication), not that the person registered is allowed to vote (authorization). Authorization of registered voters and removal/disqualification of unauthorized voters is, even in Voter ID systems and proposals, handled separately from voter ID, typically by the same kind of processes used without voter ID.
- tzs 5y ago
  > The point is that maybe it should. It's reasonable to say that people should vote in the place where they're a permanent resident and not somewhere they're likely not going to reside by the end of the term of office for the election in question. That doesn't really have anything to do with voter ID at the polls, because the point of voter ID at the polls is not to prove that you are eligible to vote. Proof of eligibility should be taken care of when you register to vote. The point of ID at the polls is to show that you are the person who you claim to be, so that the poll workers can check to see if you are on the registered voter list.
staysafeanon 5y ago
>You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. A driver's license proves state residency (one of the requirements needed to vote), a student ID does not.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Reread my comment. I cited a source indicating college students have the right to register to vote where their school is located. Neither a school ID nor a drivers’ license says anything about citizenship. They’re the same in that regard.
  - staysafeanon 5y ago
    >I cited a source indicating college students have the right to register to vote where their school is located. That's not what that says. Students can proclaim residency in the state they are attending school, yes. That also means in Texas you have 30 days to register your car, 90 days to change over to a Texas driver's license, etc. >Neither a school ID nor a drivers’ license says anything about citizenship. They’re the same in that regard. We're not talking about citizenship, we're talking about residency. A student ID does not prove state residency, so it does not past muster whatsoever. Texas has legal explanation covering this specific scenario: https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/elo/gsc1.pdf https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/elo/gsc1.pdf I'll state it again: a student ID does not prove residency.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      A student ID proves identity. The comment upthread I initially replied to stated student IDs aren't appropriate because they don't demonstrate citizenship; I pointed out neither does a drivers' license. The appropriate time to look at residency/citizenship is at the voter registration step. This is already done!
      - staysafeanon 5y ago
        >A student ID proves identity. Except student IDs don't even do that. They prove your student status, not state resident identity. That's why you can't use student IDs to buy alcohol, board a plane, or purchase a firearm. Voting and buying guns are both constitutionally guaranteed rights. Are you OK with people buying guns with student IDs? If you are, at least you're being consistent. Many student IDs are not even issued by the states (private schools). Also, there are hundreds of schools per state, being a student at Piney Woods Community College isn't easily verifiable if it's even in the state. >The comment upthread I initially replied to stated student IDs aren't appropriate because they don't demonstrate citizenship Nor do they demonstrate residency, nor are they valid for a number of other rights and privileges so it holds that they're not accepted. >I pointed out neither does a drivers' license. Which is true, but not what I stated above. >The appropriate time to look at residency/citizenship is at the voter registration step. This is already done! Some states have same day registration so it is not already done. Nonetheless, a student ID is a poor ID for exercising a person's right to vote.
rsj_hn 5y ago
> You don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, either, but they're accepted. 34 states require a birth certificate or proof of legal residency. 16 states do not require the above, but that does not mean that no identification at all is required.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Residency isn’t citizenship.

michaelt 5y ago

Right, but voter ID isn't to prove you have the right to vote - that happens at voter registration. The state already knows John Jones, born 1st January 1970, is eligible to vote - I merely have to prove that I am John Jones, born 1st January 1970.

Amezarak 5y ago
> The state already knows John Jones, born 1st January 1970, is eligible to vote It actually does not know this. This is a very hard problem to solve in the US. There can be positive evidence of this (John Jones has been a resident of California since birth, has a birth certificate (state document) and a Social Security (federal) number reflecting that), but John Jones may have been born in PA with no Social Security number or birth certificate at all and be a current resident of California, having moved there last year, and a perfectly legitimate US citizen eligible to vote in California for local, state, and federal offices. There is no national US citizen registry, mostly for historical reasons, and making one is a total political nonstarter. Further, states are individually responsible for determining if someone is probably an eligible voter, and so there’s different processes and checks in place depending on the state.
- mijamo 5y ago
  What about for taxes? The UD has a reputation of being pretty good at tracking their citizens even outside the US to get their taxes.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    All US tax payers have a tax payer ID - attempting to use that for anything else would likely be shut down really quickly by republicans.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > All US tax payers have a tax payer ID - attempting to use that for anything else would likely be shut down really quickly by republicans. For most taxpayers, that's the SSN, and its widely used for other purposes. Republicans mostly seem to have a problem when people point out that their incompetence is causing them to leak publicly, e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28867562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28867562

adrianmonk 5y ago

It's authentication vs. authorization just like with computer software. You go to vote. They check ID to determine whether the person standing there is who they claim to be. Then they check the voter registration rolls to see if that person is eligible to vote.