5 ms·

I'm interested in knowing:how is citizenship a legal fiction ?

arcticbull 5y ago
I think its most clear at the extents. For instance, if you live in Point Roberts. [1] Most people also associate citizenship with right of abode, but that's not always true either. For instance, the BN(O)s from Hong Kong are British Citizens who on that basis cannot live in England or Hong Kong - or anywhere. A separate document, an HKID or a visa, are required for them to live in HK and the UK respectively. At the end of the day it's just paperwork that decides who negotiates your right to travel and is responsible for coming to get you if things go bad. It doesn't really mean much else. Where you live and the government you engage with regularly in my opinion has far more bearing on you, your obligations and your benefits. [1] https://goo.gl/maps/tmia7U6hef3Pvf4v8 https://goo.gl/maps/tmia7U6hef3Pvf4v8
digbybk 5y ago
It exists only when people believe it exists. If no one believed in your citizenship, your passport would just be a little notebook with no value. When going from a world without citizenship to a world with it, nothing needs to change outside of the human brain. In that sense, it’s a fiction.
- jkepler 5y ago
  No. A passport says what country must take you when other places decide to deport you or refuse you entry.
  - digbybk 5y ago
    You may be missing my point. If no one believes in the country’s existence, including the people who live in the land that the country is purported to encompass, then it doesn’t exist. Nations aren’t tangible physical objects. They exist in the collective human imagination. Yes. Your passport is just a notebook if no one believes in the country it is supposed to be for.
    - curryst 5y ago
      Sealand would be of note here. This is basically that exact scenario. Dude buys an old oil platform, calls it a country and issues a bunch of passports. Debates abound over whether they should be accepted or not.

I think its most clear at the extents. For instance, if you live in Point Roberts. [1] Most people also associate citizenship with right of abode, but that's not always true either. For instance, the BN(O)s from Hong Kong are British Citizens who on that basis cannot live in England or Hong Kong - or anywhere. A separate document, an HKID or a visa, are required for them to live in HK and the UK respectively. At the end of the day it's just paperwork that decides who negotiates your right to travel and is responsible for coming to get you if things go bad. It doesn't really mean much else. Where you live and the government you engage with regularly in my opinion has far more bearing on you, your obligations and your benefits. [1] https://goo.gl/maps/tmia7U6hef3Pvf4v8 https://goo.gl/maps/tmia7U6hef3Pvf4v8

digbybk 5y ago

It exists only when people believe it exists. If no one believed in your citizenship, your passport would just be a little notebook with no value. When going from a world without citizenship to a world with it, nothing needs to change outside of the human brain. In that sense, it’s a fiction.

jkepler 5y ago
No. A passport says what country must take you when other places decide to deport you or refuse you entry.
- digbybk 5y ago
  You may be missing my point. If no one believes in the country’s existence, including the people who live in the land that the country is purported to encompass, then it doesn’t exist. Nations aren’t tangible physical objects. They exist in the collective human imagination. Yes. Your passport is just a notebook if no one believes in the country it is supposed to be for.
  - curryst 5y ago
    Sealand would be of note here. This is basically that exact scenario. Dude buys an old oil platform, calls it a country and issues a bunch of passports. Debates abound over whether they should be accepted or not.