4 ms·

It's either a fiction or it's real. And given the privileges that come with being a citizen, of course it is not a fiction. But if it is meaningful, why should

by PKop 5y ago

It's either a fiction or it's real. And given the privileges that come with being a citizen, of course it is not a fiction. But if it is meaningful, why should it not come with a cost? Nations as constructed obviously provide value to the people residing there, should this not come with corresponding responsibilities? Like paying taxes? And if there is value and meaning to being a citizen of a specific country why should a nation not place restrictions and requirements on this privilege? I could even see for example the incentive to ban dual citizenship as one. Why is it just assumed that keeping a bunch of citizenships, not paying taxes to that country, all while not living in that country is a thing that should exist? It seems like these people want their cake and to eat it too. If the country wasn't good enough to live in, why would you expect to keep the citizenship if you leave? "Marriage" is a two-way street..

digbybk 5y ago
> It's either a fiction or it's real. This I disagree with. Nations are real in the sense that they have a material impact on the world, but are fictions in the sense that they only exist when people believe in their existence. It's like money. Obviously money is real - I have some in my wallet right now - but if no one believed in the currency then it wouldn't exist. It would just be pieces of paper. > Nations as constructed obviously provide value to the people residing there I would quibble with the assertion that this is the _reason_ nations are constructed, but I do agree that they provide value. Some people's lives are just more complicated. I'm a dual citizen myself, with two citizenships from birth. I was born in Canada from two American parents. I've had two passports all my life. I happen to live in the US but I've never really chosen one country over the other. I derive identify from being a citizen of North America. There are plenty of people with slightly more complicated than average stories, they should be able to exist.
001Diana 5y ago
This is not “having your cake and eating it too,” it’s much more complex. It also is never a case of “the country wasn’t good enough to live in.” I would love to live in the USA. That is not where life took me. At its simplest Americans are not free to live anywhere in the world the way citizens of all other countries are (even Eritrea, the only other country that taxes it’s citizens based on citizenship, does not subject its citizens to the same tax complexity). All Americans should be outraged over their lack of freedom in this regard. 20 years ago I could not have imagined I’d end up living in Australia, but we don’t always know where life will lead us. Many people are born to American parents overseas and are required to spend thousands yearly to file or pay $2350 to renounce. Paying double tax to two countries is unachievable for the majority of us. There are treaties in place to avoid the is happening, however the cost of having a specialist accountant file every year is astronomical. I have paid over $25k to accountants and never once owed tax to the US. There are also some seriously unconstitutional and human rights violations going on. The surprise retroactive Transition tax of 2017 has financially ruined many small business owners, in some cases taking all their retirement savings. These are people who have worked and paid taxes in their residence country for their lifetime. There is a case in front of the Supreme Court challenging this right now.
- ajay-b 5y ago
  But in this case, even though you were living abroad, you’re still a American citizen and required to pay taxes. It’s not America’s fault that you’re living abroad for a decade. Is your intention to stay there for life, and if so, just renounce your citizenship. If you’re not willing to contribute as a citizen, why remain a citizen?
  - withinboredom 5y ago
    Wow. I can’t wait to see what they do with the $0 tax I paid. It’s spending a lot more money validating that $0 tax, and I’m spending a lot more than $0, sharing information about my private life (more than I did as a US resident) to pay $0. I’m really curious what you’re expecting the $0 tax to contribute to? But you asked, why remain a citizen? As a citizen, I can freely enter the US, even during a pandemic. When a relative dies, you want to go back and you shouldn’t have to worry about getting a tourist visa, you know? That’s not the only reason, but it’s a pretty big one.
  - popcube 5y ago
    he had pay tax, can not USA let him pay more easier?

by PKop 5y ago

digbybk 5y ago

> It's either a fiction or it's real. This I disagree with. Nations are real in the sense that they have a material impact on the world, but are fictions in the sense that they only exist when people believe in their existence. It's like money. Obviously money is real - I have some in my wallet right now - but if no one believed in the currency then it wouldn't exist. It would just be pieces of paper. > Nations as constructed obviously provide value to the people residing there I would quibble with the assertion that this is the _reason_ nations are constructed, but I do agree that they provide value. Some people's lives are just more complicated. I'm a dual citizen myself, with two citizenships from birth. I was born in Canada from two American parents. I've had two passports all my life. I happen to live in the US but I've never really chosen one country over the other. I derive identify from being a citizen of North America. There are plenty of people with slightly more complicated than average stories, they should be able to exist.

001Diana 5y ago

This is not “having your cake and eating it too,” it’s much more complex. It also is never a case of “the country wasn’t good enough to live in.” I would love to live in the USA. That is not where life took me. At its simplest Americans are not free to live anywhere in the world the way citizens of all other countries are (even Eritrea, the only other country that taxes it’s citizens based on citizenship, does not subject its citizens to the same tax complexity). All Americans should be outraged over their lack of freedom in this regard. 20 years ago I could not have imagined I’d end up living in Australia, but we don’t always know where life will lead us. Many people are born to American parents overseas and are required to spend thousands yearly to file or pay $2350 to renounce. Paying double tax to two countries is unachievable for the majority of us. There are treaties in place to avoid the is happening, however the cost of having a specialist accountant file every year is astronomical. I have paid over $25k to accountants and never once owed tax to the US. There are also some seriously unconstitutional and human rights violations going on. The surprise retroactive Transition tax of 2017 has financially ruined many small business owners, in some cases taking all their retirement savings. These are people who have worked and paid taxes in their residence country for their lifetime. There is a case in front of the Supreme Court challenging this right now.

ajay-b 5y ago
But in this case, even though you were living abroad, you’re still a American citizen and required to pay taxes. It’s not America’s fault that you’re living abroad for a decade. Is your intention to stay there for life, and if so, just renounce your citizenship. If you’re not willing to contribute as a citizen, why remain a citizen?
- withinboredom 5y ago
  Wow. I can’t wait to see what they do with the $0 tax I paid. It’s spending a lot more money validating that $0 tax, and I’m spending a lot more than $0, sharing information about my private life (more than I did as a US resident) to pay $0. I’m really curious what you’re expecting the $0 tax to contribute to? But you asked, why remain a citizen? As a citizen, I can freely enter the US, even during a pandemic. When a relative dies, you want to go back and you shouldn’t have to worry about getting a tourist visa, you know? That’s not the only reason, but it’s a pretty big one.
- popcube 5y ago
  he had pay tax, can not USA let him pay more easier?