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> It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here Im NOT! I'm trying to understand it. It appears that she's giving up her

> It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here Im NOT! I'm trying to understand it. It appears that she's giving up her citizenship so she doesn't have to use a VPN and has a better selection of banks and to avoid paying $1000 a year? Seems like a citizenship is worth WAY more than that! Something doesn't add up here! Or do people with a lot of money just have a lot less tolerance for inconveniences than average moneyed people?

cheese_van 5y ago
In many EU countries, to have a telephone line (land or mobile). The same with internet access: you must have a bank account. But most local banks do not want local US customers. It's prohibitively onerous for them. Imagine trying to establish a life without a telephone or internet.
_g5q8 5y ago
You can't open a bank account with just a VPN. You also need an address in the US. And even if you do, how do you get money into that account? Do you think your employer in the Netherlands would match your 401(k) deposits?
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  There's tons of ways to get an address in the U.S. several digitally. You can transfer money into that account via digital transfer? OF course your Netherlands employer won't match 401k, they prob don't even know what that is. Will they match it a 401k if you GIVE UP your citizenship? Doesn't make sense.
  - wrl 5y ago
    Right, there are retirement/pension investments for Dutch/EU nationals which she is not eligible for because of her status as a US person (in the eyes of the SEC). So, long story short, she's ineligible for investing as a US national unless she jumps through hoops to maintain a US address and appears to reside in the US. Meanwhile, she's ineligible for investing as a Dutch national because EU brokers won't deal with US nationals. Limbo.
callahad 5y ago
It genuinely is far more invasive and frustrating than you'd expect. I'm a dual US/UK citizen, living in the UK for four years. I have been turned away from local banks for being American. I have also had American banks and brokerages unilaterally terminate my prior accounts for moving abroad. I cannot reasonably purchase local life insurance policies nor mutual funds without tripping over IRS regulations that strip them of any preferential tax treatment and impose unimaginably onerous reporting requirements (PFIC). As a dual citizen, you would think I could just bank with my British passport and conceal my American citizenship. Except foreign banks in countries with normal diplomatic relations with America are required to proactively search their customer database for indications of potential American citizens, report their details, and possibly preventatively withhold 30% of all payments to those accounts (FATCA). This is a right pain in the ass, so those institutions will often preemptively exclude customers who seem too American from the outset. I have to rigorously report the highest monthly balance / value of every single one of my foreign assets and accounts, every year, to both the IRS and FinCEN, on entirely separate and incompatible forms. And I get to pay thousands of dollars a year for the pleasure of being locked out of basic financial vehicles (life insurance policies!) and proving to Uncle Sam that I don't owe him anything. It's especially galling because this kind of reporting and taxation for foreign-domiciled citizens is unique to America, at least of developed countries. Not to mention that all of this joy, and more, extends to your spouse, regardless of their citizenship. I keep doing it, year after year, because I still believe in America. But after a few years without stepping on American soil, the question why am I still doing this comes of its own accord.
- abdabab 5y ago
  > I have also had American banks and brokerages unilaterally terminate my prior accounts for moving abroad Was it Vanguard or Charles Schwab? Did they give a notice before terminating the accounts?
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Thanks. This explains it a little, but still seems like a huge gamble to give up one's citizen ship to the largest superpower in the world. I'd rather just use a VPN and lie to get around the bullshit if possible. You're literally not doing anything wrong by wanting to keep the money you have to support yourself and your family... the laws are just stupid and extremely unfair.

cheese_van 5y ago

In many EU countries, to have a telephone line (land or mobile). The same with internet access: you must have a bank account. But most local banks do not want local US customers. It's prohibitively onerous for them. Imagine trying to establish a life without a telephone or internet.

_g5q8 5y ago

You can't open a bank account with just a VPN. You also need an address in the US. And even if you do, how do you get money into that account? Do you think your employer in the Netherlands would match your 401(k) deposits?

nickthemagicman 5y ago
There's tons of ways to get an address in the U.S. several digitally. You can transfer money into that account via digital transfer? OF course your Netherlands employer won't match 401k, they prob don't even know what that is. Will they match it a 401k if you GIVE UP your citizenship? Doesn't make sense.
- wrl 5y ago
  Right, there are retirement/pension investments for Dutch/EU nationals which she is not eligible for because of her status as a US person (in the eyes of the SEC). So, long story short, she's ineligible for investing as a US national unless she jumps through hoops to maintain a US address and appears to reside in the US. Meanwhile, she's ineligible for investing as a Dutch national because EU brokers won't deal with US nationals. Limbo.

callahad 5y ago

It genuinely is far more invasive and frustrating than you'd expect. I'm a dual US/UK citizen, living in the UK for four years. I have been turned away from local banks for being American. I have also had American banks and brokerages unilaterally terminate my prior accounts for moving abroad. I cannot reasonably purchase local life insurance policies nor mutual funds without tripping over IRS regulations that strip them of any preferential tax treatment and impose unimaginably onerous reporting requirements (PFIC). As a dual citizen, you would think I could just bank with my British passport and conceal my American citizenship. Except foreign banks in countries with normal diplomatic relations with America are required to proactively search their customer database for indications of potential American citizens, report their details, and possibly preventatively withhold 30% of all payments to those accounts (FATCA). This is a right pain in the ass, so those institutions will often preemptively exclude customers who seem too American from the outset. I have to rigorously report the highest monthly balance / value of every single one of my foreign assets and accounts, every year, to both the IRS and FinCEN, on entirely separate and incompatible forms. And I get to pay thousands of dollars a year for the pleasure of being locked out of basic financial vehicles (life insurance policies!) and proving to Uncle Sam that I don't owe him anything. It's especially galling because this kind of reporting and taxation for foreign-domiciled citizens is unique to America, at least of developed countries. Not to mention that all of this joy, and more, extends to your spouse, regardless of their citizenship. I keep doing it, year after year, because I still believe in America. But after a few years without stepping on American soil, the question why am I still doing this comes of its own accord.

abdabab 5y ago
> I have also had American banks and brokerages unilaterally terminate my prior accounts for moving abroad Was it Vanguard or Charles Schwab? Did they give a notice before terminating the accounts?
nickthemagicman 5y ago
Thanks. This explains it a little, but still seems like a huge gamble to give up one's citizen ship to the largest superpower in the world. I'd rather just use a VPN and lie to get around the bullshit if possible. You're literally not doing anything wrong by wanting to keep the money you have to support yourself and your family... the laws are just stupid and extremely unfair.