> The idea that all manifestation should have been prevented to prevent suffering seems to take for granted, that the joys of life are not worth the suffering.

> The idea that all manifestation should have been prevented to prevent suffering seems to take for granted, that the joys of life are not worth the suffering. Yes, because that has always been my experience. I have never experienced a state of joy or happiness that seemed so good that I could see it as justifying suffering. I have however in the past experienced states of suffering so horrible that I would have given anything for them to end.