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Nah...americans like big cars and manufacturers followed the sales! Even worse, europeans started to like big cars too...I just don't get why people like to dri

Nah...americans like big cars and manufacturers followed the sales! Even worse, europeans started to like big cars too...I just don't get why people like to drive big SUVs in the city.

fischert 5y ago
This is why regulation is needed. States do not allow any kind of car on the streets. But often car manufacturers say it will threaten economy and labor.
discreteevent 5y ago
> europeans started to like big cars too I saw a documentary on this once where they interviewed some psych guy who was advising the car industry. He said that it took him some time to convince them to make everything ridiculously big. Not just the car, but the lights etc. It was based on his theory that when we first see something we evaluate it using the bit of our brain that has been there since we were lizards. And that bit is impressed by size. His theory was that it overrides everything. Most people will pick the bigger thing. He was right.
- powersnail 5y ago
  > His theory was that it overrides everything. Most people will pick the bigger thing. He was right. Wouldn't that mean that most people---regardless of culture, education, etc.---would pick SUV over sedans? Is that true? Granted there are plenty of SUVs in the US, but as far as I can see on the road and parking lots, sedans are still quite popular. I even see a lot of Minis and Beetles, which are even smaller than a regular sedan.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  Yeah the role of marketing in influencing public opinion should not be discounted.
  - kbelder 5y ago
    That was public opinion influencing marketing.
    - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
      I mean the public relations industry is all about a few people having an idea and figuring out how to convince lots of people. Just look at how cigarette sales to women were pushed with intentional ad campaigns to change public opinion. They of course need to craft their message in a way that appeals to their audience (for example calling cigarettes "torches of freedom" to appeal to progressive women in the 1920's) but the message "buy cigarettes" is decided by the marketer. https://yourstory.com/2014/08/torches-of-freedom/ https://yourstory.com/2014/08/torches-of-freedom/
acdha 5y ago
There’s some truth to that – remember the surveys where parents said that they could imagine driving an SUV but not a minivan if they divorced & were dating again? – but they were also subsidized. If the price of gas wasn’t artificially low, or they had to meet the same safety and pollution standards as everything else, they’d be less popular. We did at least close the Hummer tax write-off, but we should be doing more on the safety front since SUV drivers reversed a decades-long run of fatality reductions.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  It doesn't work like that anymore. 99% of the "SUVs" you see today are CUVs, which in turn are barely more than a lifted sedan. So the difference is gas milage is miniscule, to the point gas prices will no longer affect the sales of the most successful SUVs
  - acdha 5y ago
    Not sure where you live but the popular models around here are the 15mpg types and the drivers are … not driving efficiently so they're unlikely to be reaching that. You will see a few of the higher-MPG models like a RAV4 but at the end of the day it's a physics problem: all of that extra weight, non-aerodynamic design, and over-powered engine add up. Now, it's true that someone dropping all of the extra cash for one is less price sensitive but we're still talking a pretty big difference going from mileage in the teens to the 40+mpg a decent car gets. High gas prices would get at least some people to reconsider, especially since you have to pay a fair premium as well.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      Ignoring for a second that of the top 3 best selling SUVs in the US, the top two share a platform with sedans that weigh nearly the same amount, have the same engine options, and have very similar Cds ... None of those physics issues are specific to SUVs. Even full size SUVs end up on shared platforms with full size sedans, with "reasonably close" weights (essentially take a well optioned sedan and it weighs around what the base SUV version does) With the focus on all of these automakers on modular platforms, we've reached the point where even the largest SUVs could meet the exact same standards their sedan counterparts do and not really change at all.
nonameiguess 5y ago
I'm not trying to defend myself or anything since I don't even have a car, but when I did, it was always an SUV. It wasn't so much a matter of preference as necessity. I'm not exactly huge, only 6'2", but if I try to drive my wife's GTI, I'm hunched over and hitting my head on the ceiling. Only way to do it is leaning severely back with the seat reclined. Trying to be a backseat passenger in an average sedan is completely impossible. Even though it's at least possible to drive a car like that, if not comfortably, it definitely isn't safe, since visibility is shot to shit with the tiny mirrors and your head and elbows running into something every time you try to turn to cover your blind spots. Contrast that with an SUV. No need to lean or hunch. You can see everything without trouble. You can move without trouble. It's actually possible to use the backseat.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  The interior space of an MPV is typically bigger than an SUV. Considering the sales numbers of MPVs, it would seem that the argument you make is not what is pushing the disproportionate commercial success of SUVs.
- laurent123456 5y ago
  What? I'm about the same height and drive a sedan just fine, and it's comfortable and safe. I don't know how small your wife's car is, but I've never been in one so small that I'm bumping my head in the ceiling, that would be weird.
  - mauvehaus 5y ago
    GP is probably proportioned like Michael Phelps: short legs, long torso. I'm of a similar height, but oppositely proportioned, and the driver's seat in most cars doesn't go back far enough that my lower thighs rest on the seat, which makes for a lot of butt discomfort on long trips. If the seat does go back far enough for my legs to be comfortable, it's almost unavoidable that the steering wheel is uncomfortably far away, and I put the seat pretty close to bolt upright to put my shoulders closer and reduce the impression that I'm hanging on to the wheel for dear life as it's trying to pull away from me. Bicycles are similarly problematic: I want a shorter top tube than is common for my nominal frame size, so I ride a 59cm road bike frame with a short stem and a lot of seatpost showing. You'd be more likely to find somebody with my inseam (34" [0]) on a 61cm or 63cm frame. [0] Sorry for the mixed units. I'm giving them in the trade sizes. Road bikes are sized in metric, and pants are sized in inches, at least in the US.
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
Nah. SUVs above a certain weight pay less taxes [0], that's why automakers aggressively marketed them for decades and finally managed to convince Americans that SUVs are cool. [0]: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p946 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p946
- djrogers 5y ago
  The vast majority of people don't commercially depreciate their vehicles, so while this does apply to some, it's a relatively small group. In my huge group of friends, I know one person who does this with his truck, and he readily admits that it involves lying to the IRS and it fraud. Everyone else with a big SUV just prefers them to minivans.
  - WillPostForFood 5y ago
    There is also a gas guzzler tax that only applies to cars. If it was applied evenly, most trucks and SUVs would be paying a tax penalty for poor mileage. So there is a kind of indirect government subsidy to bigger vehicles. It is a dumb policy, but it's not why people like SUVs.
WorldMaker 5y ago
"Like" is a strong word. On the one side you've got the tragedy of the commons that is big vehicles are less safe for other people to be around unless they two are in a big vehicle. On the other side, Tesla, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan still all have relatively strong sales of sedans in the US. The US market decided that sedans were best from "imports" decades ago and GM/Ford just gave up trying to compete. Then there's of course Tesla telling GM/Ford exactly where the hockey puck was going if they wanted to compete with "imports".

Nah...americans like big cars and manufacturers followed the sales! Even worse, europeans started to like big cars too...I just don't get why people like to drive big SUVs in the city.

fischert 5y ago

This is why regulation is needed. States do not allow any kind of car on the streets. But often car manufacturers say it will threaten economy and labor.

discreteevent 5y ago

> europeans started to like big cars too I saw a documentary on this once where they interviewed some psych guy who was advising the car industry. He said that it took him some time to convince them to make everything ridiculously big. Not just the car, but the lights etc. It was based on his theory that when we first see something we evaluate it using the bit of our brain that has been there since we were lizards. And that bit is impressed by size. His theory was that it overrides everything. Most people will pick the bigger thing. He was right.

powersnail 5y ago
> His theory was that it overrides everything. Most people will pick the bigger thing. He was right. Wouldn't that mean that most people---regardless of culture, education, etc.---would pick SUV over sedans? Is that true? Granted there are plenty of SUVs in the US, but as far as I can see on the road and parking lots, sedans are still quite popular. I even see a lot of Minis and Beetles, which are even smaller than a regular sedan.
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
Yeah the role of marketing in influencing public opinion should not be discounted.
- kbelder 5y ago
  That was public opinion influencing marketing.
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    I mean the public relations industry is all about a few people having an idea and figuring out how to convince lots of people. Just look at how cigarette sales to women were pushed with intentional ad campaigns to change public opinion. They of course need to craft their message in a way that appeals to their audience (for example calling cigarettes "torches of freedom" to appeal to progressive women in the 1920's) but the message "buy cigarettes" is decided by the marketer. https://yourstory.com/2014/08/torches-of-freedom/ https://yourstory.com/2014/08/torches-of-freedom/

acdha 5y ago

There’s some truth to that – remember the surveys where parents said that they could imagine driving an SUV but not a minivan if they divorced & were dating again? – but they were also subsidized. If the price of gas wasn’t artificially low, or they had to meet the same safety and pollution standards as everything else, they’d be less popular. We did at least close the Hummer tax write-off, but we should be doing more on the safety front since SUV drivers reversed a decades-long run of fatality reductions.

BoorishBears 5y ago
It doesn't work like that anymore. 99% of the "SUVs" you see today are CUVs, which in turn are barely more than a lifted sedan. So the difference is gas milage is miniscule, to the point gas prices will no longer affect the sales of the most successful SUVs
- acdha 5y ago
  Not sure where you live but the popular models around here are the 15mpg types and the drivers are … not driving efficiently so they're unlikely to be reaching that. You will see a few of the higher-MPG models like a RAV4 but at the end of the day it's a physics problem: all of that extra weight, non-aerodynamic design, and over-powered engine add up. Now, it's true that someone dropping all of the extra cash for one is less price sensitive but we're still talking a pretty big difference going from mileage in the teens to the 40+mpg a decent car gets. High gas prices would get at least some people to reconsider, especially since you have to pay a fair premium as well.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    Ignoring for a second that of the top 3 best selling SUVs in the US, the top two share a platform with sedans that weigh nearly the same amount, have the same engine options, and have very similar Cds ... None of those physics issues are specific to SUVs. Even full size SUVs end up on shared platforms with full size sedans, with "reasonably close" weights (essentially take a well optioned sedan and it weighs around what the base SUV version does) With the focus on all of these automakers on modular platforms, we've reached the point where even the largest SUVs could meet the exact same standards their sedan counterparts do and not really change at all.

nonameiguess 5y ago

I'm not trying to defend myself or anything since I don't even have a car, but when I did, it was always an SUV. It wasn't so much a matter of preference as necessity. I'm not exactly huge, only 6'2", but if I try to drive my wife's GTI, I'm hunched over and hitting my head on the ceiling. Only way to do it is leaning severely back with the seat reclined. Trying to be a backseat passenger in an average sedan is completely impossible. Even though it's at least possible to drive a car like that, if not comfortably, it definitely isn't safe, since visibility is shot to shit with the tiny mirrors and your head and elbows running into something every time you try to turn to cover your blind spots. Contrast that with an SUV. No need to lean or hunch. You can see everything without trouble. You can move without trouble. It's actually possible to use the backseat.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
The interior space of an MPV is typically bigger than an SUV. Considering the sales numbers of MPVs, it would seem that the argument you make is not what is pushing the disproportionate commercial success of SUVs.
laurent123456 5y ago
What? I'm about the same height and drive a sedan just fine, and it's comfortable and safe. I don't know how small your wife's car is, but I've never been in one so small that I'm bumping my head in the ceiling, that would be weird.
- mauvehaus 5y ago
  GP is probably proportioned like Michael Phelps: short legs, long torso. I'm of a similar height, but oppositely proportioned, and the driver's seat in most cars doesn't go back far enough that my lower thighs rest on the seat, which makes for a lot of butt discomfort on long trips. If the seat does go back far enough for my legs to be comfortable, it's almost unavoidable that the steering wheel is uncomfortably far away, and I put the seat pretty close to bolt upright to put my shoulders closer and reduce the impression that I'm hanging on to the wheel for dear life as it's trying to pull away from me. Bicycles are similarly problematic: I want a shorter top tube than is common for my nominal frame size, so I ride a 59cm road bike frame with a short stem and a lot of seatpost showing. You'd be more likely to find somebody with my inseam (34" [0]) on a 61cm or 63cm frame. [0] Sorry for the mixed units. I'm giving them in the trade sizes. Road bikes are sized in metric, and pants are sized in inches, at least in the US.

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

Nah. SUVs above a certain weight pay less taxes [0], that's why automakers aggressively marketed them for decades and finally managed to convince Americans that SUVs are cool. [0]: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p946 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p946

djrogers 5y ago
The vast majority of people don't commercially depreciate their vehicles, so while this does apply to some, it's a relatively small group. In my huge group of friends, I know one person who does this with his truck, and he readily admits that it involves lying to the IRS and it fraud. Everyone else with a big SUV just prefers them to minivans.
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  There is also a gas guzzler tax that only applies to cars. If it was applied evenly, most trucks and SUVs would be paying a tax penalty for poor mileage. So there is a kind of indirect government subsidy to bigger vehicles. It is a dumb policy, but it's not why people like SUVs.

WorldMaker 5y ago

"Like" is a strong word. On the one side you've got the tragedy of the commons that is big vehicles are less safe for other people to be around unless they two are in a big vehicle. On the other side, Tesla, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan still all have relatively strong sales of sedans in the US. The US market decided that sedans were best from "imports" decades ago and GM/Ford just gave up trying to compete. Then there's of course Tesla telling GM/Ford exactly where the hockey puck was going if they wanted to compete with "imports".