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In US, if we do not have enough workers to clear the backlog of ships/containers what can we do? Can the army be called up to help out for a short duration? E

by tmaly 5y ago

In US, if we do not have enough workers to clear the backlog of ships/containers what can we do? Can the army be called up to help out for a short duration? Every time I go to a store, they are sold out of something. The answer I always get is that it is stuck on a ship.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
Aren't they operating 24-7 now? I think the problem is there are too many backed up boats and not enough ports.
- Spellman 5y ago
  They recently reached a deal and will operate 24/7 thanks to a deal brokered by the administration across multiple stakeholders. https://www.dailynews.com/2021/10/13/biden-to-announce-that-ports-of-la-long-beach-will-begin-24-hour-operation/ https://www.dailynews.com/2021/10/13/biden-to-announce-that-...
BitwiseFool 5y ago
Hard to say if that would actually be effective. I can imagine there would be some improvement if you had assigned some drivers from the national guard's motor pool. But it could also be the case that throwing more people at the problem actually makes things worse, almost like in the Mythical Man Month. I imagine there is probably a ton of skill and "lay of the land" around trucking at a specific port and that kind of experience needs time to cultivate. I don't actually know, just speculating.
pjc50 5y ago
Who's going to pay for that? Have government subsidise the ports by providing them with free labour? Has capitalism failed so immediately that there's no other way to get workers?
- volkl48 5y ago
  The port is a government operation already, so that doesn't seem like much of an argument. While I have no particular expertise as to where the bottlenecks lie, I don't think capitalism has any special solution to a limited pool of existing skilled labor, a large increase in demand, and a long lead time to train new skilled labor. And at least some of the bottleneck occupations in question are regulated (and for good reason) about how long they can work, removing one of the most obvious ways to immediately get "new" labor - pay the existing labor whatever it takes to get them to agree to work more hours.
- jasondigitized 5y ago
  A defense budget of $700 billion dollars pays for the National Guard.
wrycoder 5y ago
Army? So, instead of paying more for labor to clear that market, the port operators get free labor?
micromacrofoot 5y ago
They can maybe use the National Guard? They've used them to administer vaccines and drive school busses in some states.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  I'm with pcj50. The answer for economic issues is not "call out the National Guard". Sure, call them out in an emergency. This isn't one.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    What's the downside?
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      The downside of not calling them out? Stuff doesn't get off of ships in time for everybody to have their dream Christmas. The upside is that the National Guard gets to remain available to be the National Guard, instead of a trucking company. You know, so they can be available if we need them?
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        > Stuff doesn't get off of ships in time for everybody to have their dream Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas and I get why you're being flippant here, but it can have a significant impact on the economy. > You know, so they can be available if we need them? I think they'd still be available if something higher priority came up, no? Like I said earlier, they're already driving school busses in some states.
        AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Having a significant effect on the economy does not make it an emergency, though.
    - 5y ago
paxys 5y ago
If people were starving on the streets due to a shortage of food then yes, states could activate the national guard for help. However getting your new iPhone a couple of days late doesn't constitute such an emergency.
nonameiguess 5y ago
The National Guard Transportation Corps does have units qualified to load and unload container ships that can be called up in the event of a true emergency, but I doubt this qualifies. They still have regular full-time jobs. The active duty military can't be used for something like this unless we're actually at war. Of course, me saying I "doubt" this qualifies is a personal opinion. As far as I know, it's pretty much up to the governor of each state to decide what counts as an emergency worthy of activating the Guard. I don't think it's ever been done as a response to somewhat higher than average inflation rates, though. It's usually natural disasters and long-running riots that the police can't control.

by tmaly 5y ago

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

Aren't they operating 24-7 now? I think the problem is there are too many backed up boats and not enough ports.

Spellman 5y ago
They recently reached a deal and will operate 24/7 thanks to a deal brokered by the administration across multiple stakeholders. https://www.dailynews.com/2021/10/13/biden-to-announce-that-ports-of-la-long-beach-will-begin-24-hour-operation/ https://www.dailynews.com/2021/10/13/biden-to-announce-that-...

BitwiseFool 5y ago

Hard to say if that would actually be effective. I can imagine there would be some improvement if you had assigned some drivers from the national guard's motor pool. But it could also be the case that throwing more people at the problem actually makes things worse, almost like in the Mythical Man Month. I imagine there is probably a ton of skill and "lay of the land" around trucking at a specific port and that kind of experience needs time to cultivate. I don't actually know, just speculating.

pjc50 5y ago

Who's going to pay for that? Have government subsidise the ports by providing them with free labour? Has capitalism failed so immediately that there's no other way to get workers?

volkl48 5y ago
The port is a government operation already, so that doesn't seem like much of an argument. While I have no particular expertise as to where the bottlenecks lie, I don't think capitalism has any special solution to a limited pool of existing skilled labor, a large increase in demand, and a long lead time to train new skilled labor. And at least some of the bottleneck occupations in question are regulated (and for good reason) about how long they can work, removing one of the most obvious ways to immediately get "new" labor - pay the existing labor whatever it takes to get them to agree to work more hours.
jasondigitized 5y ago
A defense budget of $700 billion dollars pays for the National Guard.

wrycoder 5y ago

Army? So, instead of paying more for labor to clear that market, the port operators get free labor?

micromacrofoot 5y ago

They can maybe use the National Guard? They've used them to administer vaccines and drive school busses in some states.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
I'm with pcj50. The answer for economic issues is not "call out the National Guard". Sure, call them out in an emergency. This isn't one.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  What's the downside?
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    The downside of not calling them out? Stuff doesn't get off of ships in time for everybody to have their dream Christmas. The upside is that the National Guard gets to remain available to be the National Guard, instead of a trucking company. You know, so they can be available if we need them?
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      > Stuff doesn't get off of ships in time for everybody to have their dream Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas and I get why you're being flippant here, but it can have a significant impact on the economy. > You know, so they can be available if we need them? I think they'd still be available if something higher priority came up, no? Like I said earlier, they're already driving school busses in some states.
      - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Having a significant effect on the economy does not make it an emergency, though.
  - 5y ago

paxys 5y ago

If people were starving on the streets due to a shortage of food then yes, states could activate the national guard for help. However getting your new iPhone a couple of days late doesn't constitute such an emergency.

nonameiguess 5y ago

The National Guard Transportation Corps does have units qualified to load and unload container ships that can be called up in the event of a true emergency, but I doubt this qualifies. They still have regular full-time jobs. The active duty military can't be used for something like this unless we're actually at war. Of course, me saying I "doubt" this qualifies is a personal opinion. As far as I know, it's pretty much up to the governor of each state to decide what counts as an emergency worthy of activating the Guard. I don't think it's ever been done as a response to somewhat higher than average inflation rates, though. It's usually natural disasters and long-running riots that the police can't control.