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That sounds right to me. The press has tried to push all sorts of narratives, but buried in the previous Bloomberg article on the ports we learn that 30% of tru

That sounds right to me. The press has tried to push all sorts of narratives, but buried in the previous Bloomberg article on the ports we learn that 30% of truck appointments go unfilled. The WSJ article yesterday quoted Long Beach port guy saying only 60% of their truck appointments are being utilized.

spicybright 5y ago
It's very unintuitive how it'd be cheaper to leave that many trucks sitting there instead of paying workers a bit more. Surely whatever a driver transports is worth much more than the paycheck they get?
- xxpor 5y ago
  It seems like most of corporate America operates under the if you give an inch they'll take a mile theory.
- newsclues 5y ago
  A) is there a shortage of trucks or drivers? B) are there bottlenecks at the ports that prevent more trucks? C) can rail be used to move boxes? D) who is making money by things NOT moving?
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    - Yes, many older truckers retired instead of dealing with COVID. This applies to many other sectors, most notably in my area school bus drivers. Other countries (notably, UK and EU fuel truck drivers) are also facing shortages of truck drivers. Nursing, retail, hospitslity have all been in the news recently for the same issue. Recent reports show 12 million open positions and only 8 million people seeking employment (estimsted, of course) - physical layout only allows for so much throughput at a time. The bigger the jam, the longer it'll take to clear - yes and no. Rail doesn't (directly) go to most places, and those that it could, often don't have distribution logistics in place from the customers since they already have their chain configured for trucks - it is a net loss all around for everyone. Any higher prices on goods are offsetting losses from reduction in volume. Theres no evil fairy tale villain to blame.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    I recently heard (second hand, so take with some salt) that there are two causes of problems: First, California passed a law that trucks had to be newer than 10 years, or else face an expensive refit for pollution control. (At least, I think it was pollution control.) Point is, the average truck was 14 years old. The obvious-in-retrospect consequence is a shortage of trucks that can legally work in California. Second, there was this recent law that required Uber to treat drivers as employees, not contractors. Well, a lot of the truck drivers are owner-operators, and they fell under that law. The consequence: You can't just contract with an owner-operator to move your container. As I said, I don't know any of this first-hand, so take with some salt.
    - newsclues 5y ago
      Stupid government policy making the problems worse makes a lot of sense.
    - spicybright 5y ago
      Wow, that's a huge stifle on the shipping industry. Do our representatives not realize literally EVERYTHING we have access to depends on trucking?
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  I would have thought that knowledge of company systems and domain knowledge would be of value of companies, but it isn’t.
- Consultant32452 5y ago
  I have an insider's info about the airline shortages, I suspect trucking is the same way. When the pandemic was going on and everything was shut down many of the older staff decided to just retire. You cannot quickly spawn up new pilots or ATCs. Some small percentage of workers are facing a medical mandate they may be unwilling to comply with and so are using any sick days that they may lose after being fired when the mandate hits. The ones that remain are so overworked they are exhausted and unable to work more and/or are getting sick due to stress and exhaustion.
irrational 5y ago
Some of my relatives are halfway joking about quitting their jobs, getting their CDLs, and becoming truck drivers. At least, I'm pretty sure they are joking. One of them has a PhD in economics, so I think he is joking.
- dvh 5y ago
  '80s in Poland. Math professor at Warsaw university finds out he would earn more money if he worked in a shipyard, so he quits his job and find a job in the docks. And indeed he earns more money. One day he overhears that there is an evening school and every worker who will attend will receive 10% bonus, so he signs up for it. First day in this evening school, very first class is math. But they have such a trivial topics that professor became bored and reads newspaper under the table. Teacher notices it and call him up to calculate the area of a circle. Professor is so surprised that he suddenly can't remember the formula, so he converts it in his head to polar coordinates and uses integral to calculate the area, and then write the formula on the table: S = -PI * r * r Then he scratches his head and start thinking where the minus came from when suddenly someone shouts from the back row: "flip the interval of integration, colleague!".
  - readthenotes1 5y ago
    The first version I heard was maths professors becoming plumbers
maxerickson 5y ago
It's a long wait to get paid by the load. Which apparently isn't anything new (2015): https://archive.kpcc.org/news/2015/06/02/52126/for-truck-drivers-at-the-ports-of-los-angeles-and/ https://archive.kpcc.org/news/2015/06/02/52126/for-truck-dri... Like in the article, did the guy say the appointments were going unfilled after they raised the pay a bunch and made it easy for the driver, or did he just say they were going unfilled?

spicybright 5y ago

It's very unintuitive how it'd be cheaper to leave that many trucks sitting there instead of paying workers a bit more. Surely whatever a driver transports is worth much more than the paycheck they get?

xxpor 5y ago
It seems like most of corporate America operates under the if you give an inch they'll take a mile theory.
newsclues 5y ago
A) is there a shortage of trucks or drivers? B) are there bottlenecks at the ports that prevent more trucks? C) can rail be used to move boxes? D) who is making money by things NOT moving?
- zdragnar 5y ago
  - Yes, many older truckers retired instead of dealing with COVID. This applies to many other sectors, most notably in my area school bus drivers. Other countries (notably, UK and EU fuel truck drivers) are also facing shortages of truck drivers. Nursing, retail, hospitslity have all been in the news recently for the same issue. Recent reports show 12 million open positions and only 8 million people seeking employment (estimsted, of course) - physical layout only allows for so much throughput at a time. The bigger the jam, the longer it'll take to clear - yes and no. Rail doesn't (directly) go to most places, and those that it could, often don't have distribution logistics in place from the customers since they already have their chain configured for trucks - it is a net loss all around for everyone. Any higher prices on goods are offsetting losses from reduction in volume. Theres no evil fairy tale villain to blame.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  I recently heard (second hand, so take with some salt) that there are two causes of problems: First, California passed a law that trucks had to be newer than 10 years, or else face an expensive refit for pollution control. (At least, I think it was pollution control.) Point is, the average truck was 14 years old. The obvious-in-retrospect consequence is a shortage of trucks that can legally work in California. Second, there was this recent law that required Uber to treat drivers as employees, not contractors. Well, a lot of the truck drivers are owner-operators, and they fell under that law. The consequence: You can't just contract with an owner-operator to move your container. As I said, I don't know any of this first-hand, so take with some salt.
  - newsclues 5y ago
    Stupid government policy making the problems worse makes a lot of sense.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    Wow, that's a huge stifle on the shipping industry. Do our representatives not realize literally EVERYTHING we have access to depends on trucking?
MattGaiser 5y ago
I would have thought that knowledge of company systems and domain knowledge would be of value of companies, but it isn’t.
Consultant32452 5y ago
I have an insider's info about the airline shortages, I suspect trucking is the same way. When the pandemic was going on and everything was shut down many of the older staff decided to just retire. You cannot quickly spawn up new pilots or ATCs. Some small percentage of workers are facing a medical mandate they may be unwilling to comply with and so are using any sick days that they may lose after being fired when the mandate hits. The ones that remain are so overworked they are exhausted and unable to work more and/or are getting sick due to stress and exhaustion.

irrational 5y ago

Some of my relatives are halfway joking about quitting their jobs, getting their CDLs, and becoming truck drivers. At least, I'm pretty sure they are joking. One of them has a PhD in economics, so I think he is joking.

dvh 5y ago
'80s in Poland. Math professor at Warsaw university finds out he would earn more money if he worked in a shipyard, so he quits his job and find a job in the docks. And indeed he earns more money. One day he overhears that there is an evening school and every worker who will attend will receive 10% bonus, so he signs up for it. First day in this evening school, very first class is math. But they have such a trivial topics that professor became bored and reads newspaper under the table. Teacher notices it and call him up to calculate the area of a circle. Professor is so surprised that he suddenly can't remember the formula, so he converts it in his head to polar coordinates and uses integral to calculate the area, and then write the formula on the table: S = -PI * r * r Then he scratches his head and start thinking where the minus came from when suddenly someone shouts from the back row: "flip the interval of integration, colleague!".
- readthenotes1 5y ago
  The first version I heard was maths professors becoming plumbers

maxerickson 5y ago

It's a long wait to get paid by the load. Which apparently isn't anything new (2015): https://archive.kpcc.org/news/2015/06/02/52126/for-truck-drivers-at-the-ports-of-los-angeles-and/ https://archive.kpcc.org/news/2015/06/02/52126/for-truck-dri... Like in the article, did the guy say the appointments were going unfilled after they raised the pay a bunch and made it easy for the driver, or did he just say they were going unfilled?