3 ms·

God said: "...men are, that they might have joy." (https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2 https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/s

by lcall 5y ago

God said: "...men are, that they might have joy." (https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2 https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-... verse 25, "men/man" meaning people, of course, as below.) And He also said: "For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/moses/1 https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/mos... verse 39.) Consider that: God's purpose is for our eternal benefit, and the purpose of life is joy. I have learned for myself that the above is true, that mercy and justice are real, and our choices matter, and life, while legitimately full of hard things, does have purpose and can lead to peace, and eternal life. This mortality is not the beginning or the end, for sure. There is so much more, and I have found (amid divorce/remarriage, long-term health issues, mistakes, sweet grandchildren now, and a variety of learning experiences) that it really, really helps, and life is good. Edit: minor wording clarifications.

PlunkettBoy 5y ago
Meh. Invisible man in the sky not doing it for me. Too much pain and suffering on this planet. I used to believe in God. Until I learned about the Holocaust. One death camp survivor wrote: "If there's a God he owes me an apology.
- lcall 5y ago
  Thanks for your commment. I belive in a being who said "Blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.", and who is utterly able to keep that promise. Our current vision is limited. I have found that one can know this for oneself, not just because someone said so, and doesn't have to believe "fairy tales". There's more at my web site, how I learned this. (not selling anything, but honest feedback is appreciated.)
- lcall 5y ago
  You make an important point about pain and suffering, and I should have added: there are reasons it happens, and it might be summarized as: 1) we are in a "fallen" or very imperfect world, and things happen that are hard, even evil sometimes. 2) Part of the purpose of life is to learn from our choices, and also to grow from going through and doing hard things. 3) We sometimes make choices that hurt others, and all will be judged according to their knowledge, and will have an opportunity to choose better, at some point. 4) We knew at least some of this before we came to mortality, and we chose to come here. 5) Direction in general and personally are available to each of us, if we seek it. And one can know for oneself if this is true, or not--not just having to believe what another mortal tells you, with no real/good corroboration and testing/verification (with which I am satisfied). Everyone will be healed and have opportunities to choose right from wrong along their path, and rewards/punishments correspond to our choices. Forgiveness is available to those who choose that path. (Edits: minor clarification.)
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > Invisible man in the sky not doing it for me. Reasonable. Because such an understand of (the Christian) God is indeed simplistic. But most folks don't have the time or energy to get into theology and the notion of (e.g.) Aquinas of God being "ipsum esse subsistens": "the shear act of 'to be' itself." * https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781351477703 https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781351477703 > I used to believe in God. Until I learned about the Holocaust. One death camp survivor wrote: "If there's a God he owes me an apology. The faith of plenty of folks in the concentration camps didn't seem to be phased much by what they endured: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Concentration_Camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Conc... Suffering is not new, especially for Christians: the first three centuries weren't very pleasant. By tradition the Pope often wears red shoes to remember the martyrs. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_shoes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_shoes As Tertullian wrote "the blood of the Christians is the seed of a new life": * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologeticus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologeticus This predates things in the Christian tradition with the Book of Job; Bp. Barron has a few good videos on suffering: > In the Bible no one seems to think that God's existence, indeed the existence of a loving God, is somehow incompatible with suffering. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfK5xYK0EzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfK5xYK0EzQ * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07AWWJiyAU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07AWWJiyAU8 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9WNWplC_zI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9WNWplC_zI
  - xupybd 5y ago
    Now that I've read this comment I find mine redundant.
- xupybd 5y ago
  If God is not good then he doesn't exist? I'm not sure I can follow that logic. Suffering seems to be part of the life of every biblical hero. Christ suffered horribly as part of his ordained purpose. The entire book of Job explores the suffering of Gods chosen faithful followers. It's deeply woven into theology.

by lcall 5y ago

PlunkettBoy 5y ago

Meh. Invisible man in the sky not doing it for me. Too much pain and suffering on this planet. I used to believe in God. Until I learned about the Holocaust. One death camp survivor wrote: "If there's a God he owes me an apology.

lcall 5y ago
Thanks for your commment. I belive in a being who said "Blessed are all they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.", and who is utterly able to keep that promise. Our current vision is limited. I have found that one can know this for oneself, not just because someone said so, and doesn't have to believe "fairy tales". There's more at my web site, how I learned this. (not selling anything, but honest feedback is appreciated.)
lcall 5y ago
You make an important point about pain and suffering, and I should have added: there are reasons it happens, and it might be summarized as: 1) we are in a "fallen" or very imperfect world, and things happen that are hard, even evil sometimes. 2) Part of the purpose of life is to learn from our choices, and also to grow from going through and doing hard things. 3) We sometimes make choices that hurt others, and all will be judged according to their knowledge, and will have an opportunity to choose better, at some point. 4) We knew at least some of this before we came to mortality, and we chose to come here. 5) Direction in general and personally are available to each of us, if we seek it. And one can know for oneself if this is true, or not--not just having to believe what another mortal tells you, with no real/good corroboration and testing/verification (with which I am satisfied). Everyone will be healed and have opportunities to choose right from wrong along their path, and rewards/punishments correspond to our choices. Forgiveness is available to those who choose that path. (Edits: minor clarification.)
throw0101a 5y ago
> Invisible man in the sky not doing it for me. Reasonable. Because such an understand of (the Christian) God is indeed simplistic. But most folks don't have the time or energy to get into theology and the notion of (e.g.) Aquinas of God being "ipsum esse subsistens": "the shear act of 'to be' itself." * https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781351477703 https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781351477703 > I used to believe in God. Until I learned about the Holocaust. One death camp survivor wrote: "If there's a God he owes me an apology. The faith of plenty of folks in the concentration camps didn't seem to be phased much by what they endured: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Concentration_Camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Conc... Suffering is not new, especially for Christians: the first three centuries weren't very pleasant. By tradition the Pope often wears red shoes to remember the martyrs. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_shoes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_shoes As Tertullian wrote "the blood of the Christians is the seed of a new life": * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologeticus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologeticus This predates things in the Christian tradition with the Book of Job; Bp. Barron has a few good videos on suffering: > In the Bible no one seems to think that God's existence, indeed the existence of a loving God, is somehow incompatible with suffering. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfK5xYK0EzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfK5xYK0EzQ * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07AWWJiyAU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07AWWJiyAU8 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9WNWplC_zI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9WNWplC_zI
- xupybd 5y ago
  Now that I've read this comment I find mine redundant.
xupybd 5y ago
If God is not good then he doesn't exist? I'm not sure I can follow that logic. Suffering seems to be part of the life of every biblical hero. Christ suffered horribly as part of his ordained purpose. The entire book of Job explores the suffering of Gods chosen faithful followers. It's deeply woven into theology.