4 ms·

No one possibly thinks women and men are physically equal, right? This is why we have separate women and men sports.

CountDrewku 5y ago
Oh there is definitely a large group of people pushing this mistaken belief. When you hold the belief that there are no genders then logically there can be no women's sports and you cannot hold the idea that there are physical/mental differences between men or women without some for of cognitive dissonance. The media and many others are backing transgender men entering multiple women's sports like it's not a problem. They're even ok with it happening in MMA and it's terrifying. You're going to have woman killed with this sort of stuff. https://nypost.com/2021/09/11/transgender-fighter-alana-mclaughlin-wins-mma-debut/ https://nypost.com/2021/09/11/transgender-fighter-alana-mcla...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
inerte 5y ago
Maybe a tiny minority do, but it isn't so much about the physicality and genes, but treatment and identification. Someone who's a man or woman in 99% of all contexts (except biology) think Sports, which is a human construct, is discriminatory, and as all human constructs, can be re-invented and changed. Hey, not taking sides here, just saying it's not as simple as reducing to people who think women and men (or female and male) are actually the same. But if it helps taking sides, from our current way of doing most competitive sports, it makes sense to split into male and female (biologically speaking, at birth) and transgenders shouldn't compete on the other side.
- lovecg 5y ago
  My understanding is that in most sports there’s an “open” division where everyone can compete - though that means in practice men dominate. The “women” division is then created as a way towards better representation. It’s a progressive policy, not discrimination. If we get rid of the women’s division we’ll be left with men-only sports.
ren_engineer 5y ago
blank slate supporters really believe it's all environmental, any difference between individuals is environmental and we just need to change things until everybody is equal
greenshackle2 5y ago
> separate women and men sports Most professional sports I know of (in the US) technically don't have separate men leagues. There are women only leagues, and leagues open to anyone. There is no rule preventing women from playing in the NFL, NHL or MLB. But in practice if you don't enforce a minimum % of women players like I've seen in some amateur mixed leagues, it makes them men only. The Olympics does split into men-only and women-only, I think.
throwawaysea 5y ago
A number of trans rights activists (TRAs) are trying to erase the concept of 'sex' entirely, including sex-based differences. Although this seems absurd on its face, TRAs came to this point in the debate gradually: initially there was a focus on making the claim that gender is short for 'gender identity', which is in their view entirely unrelated to biological sex. This seemed agreeable to a broad audience, but committed TRAs then started looking to erode the sex-based separation seen in spaces such as bathrooms, sports, and more. The Biden administration took this further by redefining the word 'sex' when it comes to official law and policy (example: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/biden-hhs-redefines-sex-as-non-biological-in-new-anti-discrimination-rule-change/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/biden-hhs-redefines-sex-...). Now TRAs are pushing for drivers licenses and birth certificates to allow self-identified information in the 'sex' field. Doctors and activists in the medical world are ceasing to use words like 'mother' and instead are using terms like 'birthing person' or 'uterus owner'. Sex-based sexual orientation (like 'lesbian') is being replaced as activists push for redefining it in terms of gender identity. These days, even pointing out that the word "woman" is defined as "adult human female", where "female" is defined biologically, is deemed "hate speech" by TRAs on Twitter. For sports specifically, it is worth listening to this Megyn Kelly podcast episode where she speaks to two girls affected by this issue in high school sports, as well as two sports biology researchers - one of whom is trans - discussing sex-based differences in sports: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trans-athletes-debate-from-all-angles-high-school/id1532976305?i=1000534581199 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trans-athletes-deb... In depth, balanced discussions around this issue are also difficult to come by because of censorship and vitriol. A good listen on this facet of the issue is this interview of journalist Abigail Shrier, whose recent book drew the ire of TRAs: https://www.honestlypod.com/podcast/episode/3054d6c7/courage-in-the-face-of-book-burners https://www.honestlypod.com/podcast/episode/3054d6c7/courage...
- silicon2401 5y ago
  Great summary of the situation. I wonder how long things will continue in the direction they've been going, and when things will begin rolling back in the other direction
  - 5y ago

Oh there is definitely a large group of people pushing this mistaken belief. When you hold the belief that there are no genders then logically there can be no women's sports and you cannot hold the idea that there are physical/mental differences between men or women without some for of cognitive dissonance. The media and many others are backing transgender men entering multiple women's sports like it's not a problem. They're even ok with it happening in MMA and it's terrifying. You're going to have woman killed with this sort of stuff. https://nypost.com/2021/09/11/transgender-fighter-alana-mclaughlin-wins-mma-debut/ https://nypost.com/2021/09/11/transgender-fighter-alana-mcla...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

inerte 5y ago

Maybe a tiny minority do, but it isn't so much about the physicality and genes, but treatment and identification. Someone who's a man or woman in 99% of all contexts (except biology) think Sports, which is a human construct, is discriminatory, and as all human constructs, can be re-invented and changed. Hey, not taking sides here, just saying it's not as simple as reducing to people who think women and men (or female and male) are actually the same. But if it helps taking sides, from our current way of doing most competitive sports, it makes sense to split into male and female (biologically speaking, at birth) and transgenders shouldn't compete on the other side.

lovecg 5y ago
My understanding is that in most sports there’s an “open” division where everyone can compete - though that means in practice men dominate. The “women” division is then created as a way towards better representation. It’s a progressive policy, not discrimination. If we get rid of the women’s division we’ll be left with men-only sports.

ren_engineer 5y ago

blank slate supporters really believe it's all environmental, any difference between individuals is environmental and we just need to change things until everybody is equal

greenshackle2 5y ago

> separate women and men sports Most professional sports I know of (in the US) technically don't have separate men leagues. There are women only leagues, and leagues open to anyone. There is no rule preventing women from playing in the NFL, NHL or MLB. But in practice if you don't enforce a minimum % of women players like I've seen in some amateur mixed leagues, it makes them men only. The Olympics does split into men-only and women-only, I think.

throwawaysea 5y ago

A number of trans rights activists (TRAs) are trying to erase the concept of 'sex' entirely, including sex-based differences. Although this seems absurd on its face, TRAs came to this point in the debate gradually: initially there was a focus on making the claim that gender is short for 'gender identity', which is in their view entirely unrelated to biological sex. This seemed agreeable to a broad audience, but committed TRAs then started looking to erode the sex-based separation seen in spaces such as bathrooms, sports, and more. The Biden administration took this further by redefining the word 'sex' when it comes to official law and policy (example: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/biden-hhs-redefines-sex-as-non-biological-in-new-anti-discrimination-rule-change/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/biden-hhs-redefines-sex-...). Now TRAs are pushing for drivers licenses and birth certificates to allow self-identified information in the 'sex' field. Doctors and activists in the medical world are ceasing to use words like 'mother' and instead are using terms like 'birthing person' or 'uterus owner'. Sex-based sexual orientation (like 'lesbian') is being replaced as activists push for redefining it in terms of gender identity. These days, even pointing out that the word "woman" is defined as "adult human female", where "female" is defined biologically, is deemed "hate speech" by TRAs on Twitter. For sports specifically, it is worth listening to this Megyn Kelly podcast episode where she speaks to two girls affected by this issue in high school sports, as well as two sports biology researchers - one of whom is trans - discussing sex-based differences in sports: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trans-athletes-debate-from-all-angles-high-school/id1532976305?i=1000534581199 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trans-athletes-deb... In depth, balanced discussions around this issue are also difficult to come by because of censorship and vitriol. A good listen on this facet of the issue is this interview of journalist Abigail Shrier, whose recent book drew the ire of TRAs: https://www.honestlypod.com/podcast/episode/3054d6c7/courage-in-the-face-of-book-burners https://www.honestlypod.com/podcast/episode/3054d6c7/courage...

silicon2401 5y ago
Great summary of the situation. I wonder how long things will continue in the direction they've been going, and when things will begin rolling back in the other direction
- 5y ago